THE MAT AS A PORTAL | When Practice Becomes Inner Knowing with Shawna Krueger.

[00:00:03] Speaker A: Welcome to Star Being. I'm Tara, your guide. Blending the wisdom of the stars, philosophy and soul centered conversation. Here we question, remember and reconnect with the stars, with self, with true being. I hope these conversations ignite within you resonance, awakening and a deeper knowing. Together we open to more truth, more magic, more you. Welcome back to Star Being. The Mat as a Portal When Practice Becomes Inner Knowing With Shawna Kruger there is something shifting right now. I feel that there is this collective pull away from overstimulation, this constant demand to be outward facing and a return to practices that bring us back to ourselves, practices that steady the nervous system, deepen our presence and reconnect us to a part of life that can't be manufactured, structured. And yoga has always been one of those parts. It is said in the Bhavagita, one who is united with the supreme through yoga, perceives with an equal vision, the supreme in all living beings and sees all living beings in the Supreme. This teaching captures the heart of what yoga truly is, a way of seeing, a way of remembering and a way of becoming whole. In today's episode I speak with Shauna, yoga teacher, writer and host of Leadership and Yoga Podcast. Her journey began in 2012 as curiosity and connection and then it has evolved into a lifelong devotion. She now shares through teaching and writing with a genuine belief that yoga can change the world. Her understanding of yoga is very poetic, it's magnetic and it moves so far beyond the posture into more of the felt sense of the practice itself, where yoga becomes in annoying rather than performance. She shares how yoga first opened her awareness and how the physical practice can become a vortex where truth is no longer avoidable. We explore the evolution of yoga culture, its return to sacredness, and the younger generation's hunger for meaning over aesthetics. We also go into the shadow side of spiritual spaces, ego dynamics in leadership and how yogic philosophy sharpens discernment. Shauna also speaks to yoga as a response to and overstimulated nervous system and offering a way back into presence, rhythm and our inner listening. At its core, this conversation is about devotion, what keeps calling us back to the mat, how practice can become a portal, and how yoga restores connection to the feminine intuition and our aliveness. I really hope that you love this conversation that I had with Shauna and see it as an invitation to slow down, turn inwards and return to what is essential. Enjoy. Welcome Shauna. I am so excited to have you on the Starbing podcast. I actually came across your work through Instagram, your poetry around yoga and you have this magnetizing energy, and the more that I have listened to and obviously preparing for this dove into your work, I'm convinced that you have a lot of Virgo placements coming from a Vedic astrologer. So I'll have to speak to you about that later. But that is my. My initial thoughts. But what I'm very excited to talk to you about on the podcast is everything about yoga. Because this is something I feel is having a bit of a evolution. People are getting more interest in, but it feels in a deeper way. And that's what I love about what you have been putting out about yoga. You seem to have really connected with the philosophy. Philosophy of it and not just the physical practice. And so I would love to start off by asking you, what is yoga? Like, what is your definition? Obviously, there's a textbook definition, but I would love to know what yoga means to you and what are you seeing happening with yoga? You know, are younger people getting into it? Like, I would just love to know where you see this space and what is exciting you. [00:04:36] Speaker B: Oh, well, thank you so much, Tara, for having me on the show, first of all. And I love to talk about yoga. I love to write about yoga, and I'm so happy that the yoga poetry spoke to you. And really, for me, I mean, we talk about what's happening in the yoga world, and we talk about, like, what is yoga really? Is that. I think you're right. I think people are understanding, okay, yoga is not what we originally thought it was. And when I say originally thought, Right. It's more of, like, what I saw in studios or even what I saw on Instagram, you know, because there's. There's something beautiful about sharing yoga and just the evolution of yoga that allows it to reach more people. But then, of course, it becomes very distracted and it becomes looped into all these different things that were at one point, not even part of yoga. [00:05:33] Speaker A: Right? [00:05:33] Speaker B: So I'm grateful because I myself am here sitting, talking to you about yoga because really, because I found the yogis of Instagram, like, 10 years ago, you know, so it is. It is beautiful in that sense. But when I think about yoga, it's so many different things. I speak a lot to the feeling of yoga. And honestly, everything that I write, the whole purpose of it is to capture the feeling, because for me, it brings this sense of presence like nothing else. This is a complete magic moment. And since I know that listeners of the podcast, if you're listening and you're curious about things like spirituality, if we speak about yoga and the definition of it in the Bhagavad Gita, which is a text that is often referenced in terms of the definition of yoga. Yoga and things like that, it says that yoga is the integration of the spirit. It is becoming whole on the deepest spiritual level. And it's a lot to process if you are in an asana class in a studio, how that could really be. It feels almost like two separate worlds. Right. But my goal is definitely to bridge that gap because I think that there's a lot of beautiful things that happen in the physical practice that happen when we share the practice, whether that is in studio or online, but they don't need to be necessarily separate. So I'll start with that. So much. I could. I could talk the whole podcast on that. I love that first question. [00:07:11] Speaker A: Yes. And that when I've heard you speak about it, is, yeah. So much deeper than the physical practice. And I see that as what is the branding and the marketing around yoga and not to take away from that physical practice, because in my experience, there is definitely something that unlocks when you're doing these physical postures. I remember being in a class once, and the teacher said, you know, you can come to this yoga class just for the physical benefits of it. You know, the, you know, greater flexibility and feeling your body and the fitness aspect. But she goes, watch out, because you will start to learn more about yourself and your whole world will change. And I just thought that was really fascinating. It's like you can't get away from this kind of, like a vortex that it can. Yeah. Really take you into. [00:08:21] Speaker B: It's magnetic. There is a magnetism to it. And I think with the physical practice as well, it's. It's another shared language that we have, and it's a metaphor for everything that's going on inside of us in a very tangible, physical way that we can see and that we can witness. Like, the other day, I was interviewing a yoga teacher on the podcast, Tim. He's great. I don't know if that episode will be released by the time that this show is, but he started to reference and tell me a story in relation to a headstand. He's like, you know, when you're doing a headstand and we're talking astanga and rockets, so lots of people do headstands. Not that you need to do a headstand to do yoga. [00:09:00] Speaker A: Right. [00:09:00] Speaker B: But it's a shared asana that we have. And I said, yeah, yeah, Tim, I do know what it's like when you do a headstand. And he's like, well, you know, when you're. You have this moment of trust where you're actually trying to find balance and it feels almost like you're going to tip over backwards and you have to. You have to trust a little bit into that point and find balance. Because a lot of times what we end up doing is we don't want to fall over backwards. So if you've ever tried to do a headstand and it feels like it's like a lot of effort, right. You're putting a lot of weight on the side that is like, we call it the positive side, the side where it's not scary. Your feet just come back down to the earth. But the negative side is falling over your head. Right. And falling over backwards. And he's like, yeah, so our perception of what is balance is different. You know, sometimes we feel like we are in balance, but actually we are really fighting and we're really working hard. And then he kept telling me the story, but it's like. Because he could explain it through the physical asana. I got it, you know, because it's a sensation that I've experienced. I felt it in my body. So when he describes it, I can feel it in my bones. It's like truth, you know? So, yeah, the asana practice is another way of delivering truth to people. And I think that's what creates that vortex that you're describing, that magnetism to it. [00:10:26] Speaker A: Yes, I love that. And I wanted to speak about your podcast, the Leadership of Yoga, because this really came upon you through like more of the shadow. And so I would love to know how you really turned. Yeah, turned, you know, your quest into this incredible podcast that you have through going through your own kind of, I guess, yeah. Journey of what leadership is in the yoga space. [00:11:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, there are many shadows I feel in one, but there are, there are two, like, both of which you've just hinted at and touched on. The first one being my own deep fear of public speaking, which is so funny to get into podcasting. Right. And really the origin story behind that is like just what it sounds. I was really afraid of public speaking, but I had the opportunity to give a graduation speech back in high school and it went really well because I completely over prepared which one does when you're nervous and when you have a shadow. Right. You kind of like, it forces itself to your attention. You have to pay more attention to it. Which is why I do believe that things happen for us in areas that we do have shadows. Because of the fact that we're, like, forced to pay attention, in a way, hopefully we pay attention at least. And, yeah, so I recorded. I didn't record it. My mother recorded this graduation speech, but I refused to watch it, and I would not listen to the speech. This went on for years and years and years. I think five or six years after the speech is when I was finally, like, curious. Enough time had passed, and I was like, all right, I can see the speech, you know, because everybody had told me in that moment, hey, that was so incredible, like, wow, what a moving speech. And they'd given me these really nice compliments, but I was just so certain that if I watched it back, that I would think it was bad. You know, I would think it's embarrassing and all the things. But when I finally did watch the speech, like, five or six years later that thankfully my mother had recorded for me, I. I was like, wow, that's actually really inspiring. Like, I should have a podcast, you know, Like, I should maybe consider podcasting. Like, wouldn't that be something? So that kind of lit the initial spark and the whole first year of me podcasting was the unfolding of that shadow of, like, speaking as has been yoga teaching, honestly, showing up and speaking in front of people. But the other part of that, right, So I kind of had the seed of the spark of the idea of the podcast was then the leadership portion of it, which is, you know, kind of what you were mentioning right now. And that is that after I had gone full time into the yoga world, I thought that I, you know, I thought I was going to arrive to the land of rainbows and butterflies where we all hold hands as yoga teachers and, you know, run off into the sunset. And what I found was not that at all. I actually found that the leadership and the interactions that I was having with some people that I considered my leaders were a lot worse and a lot more, I should say, more toxic or, like, confronting. And, yeah, they made me feel unsafe in different ways, that even being in, like, the law firm environment that I was in before going full time into yoga had nothing of that sort. Right? It was a very cutthroat environment. But the leaders, they understood and followed leadership principles. And I had read various books that my boss, various leaders of mine, had recommended on leadership, and I was really interested in this idea of leadership and of human potential and how we can help people succeed. I was interested always in the great coaches that I had growing up and not coaching, as in maybe coaching that we would think, like, one on one I mean, like, sports coaching, honestly, at that time that I had and later on would have various different mentors and coaches of different kinds. But I was fascinated, you know, by this idea of leadership. And in this one particular instance, when I was feeling, so I guess you could say just like, frustrated, and I felt really confused, right. And I realized, I'm like, man, why wouldn't it be great if in yoga they could read some of these texts of leadership? Right? Because there's a lot of good things that these leaders are doing. And honestly, looking back, like, I also take partial accountability, for sure, of, like, the communication and things that were just led to this downfall. But. But I was like, man, it would be so great if people could read these leadership books. And I'm like, at the same time, it would be awesome if people that are leaders and do understand these principles or who are just, quite frankly, in positions of power could understand a little bit more of these yogic principles that these yogis are preaching, because it's. That right there would be the magic sauce. And so I was like, I'm just going to put the placeholder title Leadership and Yoga, and I never changed it. [00:16:17] Speaker A: Yes. And that's what I love about your story so much. You. You use that as the springboard. You're like, I need this and I'm not saying this, so I'm going to create it. And I think on the level of consciousness, there is a discernment when it comes to. Yeah. Following or giving your power away. Do you think that you really tapping into the yogic philosophy really helped you with that discernment and seeing beneath some of that ego, that illusion around that space at the time, like, what do you think? Because I see, you know, sometimes that's not the case. There isn't that discernment there. [00:17:12] Speaker B: Yeah. I think, honestly, it took me a moment. You know, I went into this podcast thing, and it became then about interviewing teachers that I admired or teachers that were popular or teachers who I saw doing cool things and being like, how are these people doing it better, you know, like here and still kind of search, searching after, like, this, better leadership and yoga, you know what I mean? So it did take me a minute to get to what you're describing, which is that actually there's a lot of different ways that we can be doing this thing. And just because that initial spark was frustrating to me and hurtful to me, like, it's really, at the end of the day, like, that that is because of the way that I perceived it and the way that I took it, you know, and I am grateful for it. But I do think that in terms of the yogic philosophy portion of things, the biggest thing that helped me right off the bat, and I think that this is something that came in earlier than anything, maybe even two or so years before I started the podcast, before I even became a yoga teacher, was coming to understand through the yoga seat sutras that you are the seer or the watcher of your thoughts, and you are not your thoughts. Like, I had really never closed my eyes and listened to the voice inside my head and realized that I had a voice inside my head. I was just completely in reactive mode. And that changed everything because then you. Yeah, you get that ultimate discernment, right? You get that realization that you don't need to react to every single thought, you don't need to say every single thing that comes to the tip of your tongue immediately in creating that space. You don't need to believe everything that you hear there either. That changed. That changed a lot for me in that realm. [00:19:21] Speaker A: Yes. That is a constant practice. [00:19:26] Speaker B: Isn't. Really is. Yeah. [00:19:31] Speaker A: I would love to know on this. On this thought is what attracted me to speaking to you. I will share this in my material for this podcast episode, so I'll give a reference to it. But you spoke about, yoga is the way that you make sense of the world. And I love this concept because you were talking about, you know, there's so much happening in the world. There's so much, you know, that is. You're distracting our nervous system. We're getting, you know, stimulated, where we're, you know, seeing things all around the world all the time. And you were saying, so now we don't necessarily. Should we be speaking about yoga, but we should absolutely be speaking about it because it is helping us. So I'd love. I probably butchered that, but I would love for you to speak along that and that concept because I think it's really beautiful. [00:20:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I know exactly what really, you're speaking to. And I was honestly, I was a little nervous to share that because it's such a big topic to even approach for many creators that they either don't approach it at all or they only create content on those sorts of things. And being somebody like myself, that I try to bring a lot, like the feeling of yoga, you know, and sometimes earlier on, truthfully, with my account, I. I didn't approach as much the subjects of what's going on in the world because I wanted it to be like an escape for people. And I'VE come to understand that you can actually do both. Like, you can speak about it in a way that doesn't fry our nervous systems. Because a lot of times when we are receiving news, it is just in a way that is entirely overstimulated and often quite addictive to our system. And so my backstory with all of this is that I studied international studies, political economy, and I wanted to work in policy. I was very dead set on that. And I would literally have classes, and I've shared this before on the episode I did on yoga and politics, but I literally had a class where I was responsible for knowing the news. And every Tuesday, Thursday, I had a quiz. If I didn't know what was going on in South China Sea, then I would miss points. And so I could never really separate from it. I could never step back. And the result of that was that I became incredibly burnt out and I felt very, like, hopeless. I felt. I really felt like in 2016, the world was ending. You know, I was incredibly negative about all of it. And so the way that I like to talk about all of this and the context that I will give for, like, why? Yes, like, why should we talk about yoga in these times? Like, why should we talk about spirituality? Like, why should we talk about self discovery in times like these? And the reason why is that I believe that we need to more than ever, because I do believe that to resist starts within. And if we do not know our own self, then we really cannot really fully understand what's going on outside of us. If we cannot feel our own humanity, we cannot feel for all of humanity was a line that I put in that particular reel that you're speaking to. And that's one of the most important ones to me, honestly, because otherwise we become very numb. We become very disconnected. And we may be incredibly informed and incredibly immersed in apathy in which we have no energy to do anything, right? But then it's like, where do we draw the line? Where does yoga become an incredibly selfish endeavor? Where we're just like, look at me and my bubble of peace and happiness, don't touch me. You know, I'm energetically clean, right? And that's also not the answer. And so I like to kind of divide it down into, there are four ways to live. And not because I believe there are only four, but I catch myself in these four different states, which is like, number one, the Ignorance is Bliss Land. You don't even know. You're just doing the yoga, like, doing your practices, getting to know yourself. But you're not knowing the world at all. And because you haven't opened the book or you haven't opened anything, right? You haven't let any sort of information in. The second way is when you do let that information in and then you slam it shut and you go, can't look there. That's too heavy, that's too intense. I can't handle it. You know, it's like the sticking of the head back down in the sand, but you've seen what's up above. The third way is you pull your head back up out of the sand, you're looking around and you're going, this is terrible. I don't even know what we're gonna do. The world is ending. This is bad. These people are bad. I'm bad because I'm not doing enough. But like, all we should be doing is focusing on these problems. And it's like this very negative take, you know? And then the fourth way is to keep your head up above the sand and to see everything for what it is and not exist in like rose tinted glasses, not exist in good vibes only, right? But rather to see everything for what it is and at the same time have this sort of unwavering devotion to do whatever it is that you can and to remain in a positive light. And I think that gets really misconstrued and it feels like even scary to say it, right? Because it's like, what do you mean? How can we be positive about all of this that's going on, on? But I think that we can. And it's not in the way either of this sort of rhetoric that many people do believe, right? In this sort of divine plan where it's like, oh, it's all divine plan, don't worry, right? Everything is unfolding as it should be. And I would say that we are the divine plan. I would agree with the concept of the divine plan, but our actions are creating that divine plan in every single moment. So it's kind of like for me, it's like a fate versus free will. What will you take of it? And I think even fate is in a way free will in that sense. I don't know if that makes sense. [00:26:09] Speaker A: Yes, that totally makes sense. I really resonate with that and feel similar because I think being a Vedic astrologer, I believe in divine timing, but I also believe in the Vedic text there's the yogi, so like the more light is coming onto the consciousness. So more people are waking up at this time as we grow more towards the light. But from my understanding of that. And what feels true to me is there is this free will and it isn't guaranteed and that it is going to be all rainbows, but there's, you know, opportunity to focus on that higher consciousness and we can change the direction or how quickly that speeds up. Like, I think there is, you know, when they talk about the seas of the future and things like that sort of saying they can't fully make out the picture. And I feel that is because it's still up to us. And I. Yeah, I think it is up to us to keep working on that level of consciousness. And I think that feels. I think that feels like there is some responsibility. And I like that. I like to think that each of our consciousness matters and is creating that ripple effect. [00:27:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's exactly it, is that sense of power. And ultimately, I don't know, but it sure feels a heck of a lot better to live feeling empowered by that. And like you said, understanding the world in a way in which our evolution of consciousness ultimately matters. [00:28:04] Speaker A: Yes. And speaking about this, what has been coming up for me lately, I've been really diving into the. The feminine energy in terms of the. I think throughout history, the suppression and removal of the feminine form, the feminine energy has really been coming up to me in a lot of texts that I'm reading. And so I'd love to know, from your perspective, do you feel that yoga has this role in restoring the feminine? Are you seeing that as. Because I feel like this is the divine feminine rising. Like, I'm feeling that this is. Is the time, and not in a way where it's, you know, saying men aren't important, but that this equality, that this energy needs to come back to that balance that you were talking about at the beginning. And so I'd love to know your thoughts on that and what you're seeing with that rhythm and that inner listening. And. Yeah, [00:29:12] Speaker B: I love this question because a lot of people. It's funny, when I write, I will often write these sort of love poems to yoga to try to express what yoga has brought to me, which is absolutely a restoration of the feminine. But people will be like, why do you refer to yoga as she? And I started to write it just to kind of personify yoga truthfully, just, like, for the art of it, not because of, like, it being philosophically correct or anything like that, you know? And I don't believe that yoga is only feminine. Right? Not at all. But I think that it represents exactly this feeling of the connection to the intuitive and to the soft and to the. Yeah. To the love of our existence in a way that I completely lost track of. And I think that one way for me that I see this reconnection happening is, like, even through creativity, I. I feel like when we are children, right, and we're so much, like, closer to source and to all of these natural feelings. And I know I was a lot closer, naturally to the feminine when I was younger, and then it kind of got trained out of me through school and, like, seeking grades. And it's just that this hyper sort of masculine energy of competitiveness and the cutthroat nature, and it's been a whole process of undoing that. And honestly, I will also say that I still have a lot to learn about the feminine and, like, even how to speak about it in this context of yoga. But I do sense that yoga is one of the paths that is incredibly healing to society right now. And that's why I'm so grateful for it. Because ultimately, yoga is a word that is becoming understood by many people. Maybe just at first, the surface level of it, but now more and more, as you're mentioning that yoga is going through kind of this change in this awakening where more and more people are wanting to understand the roots of yoga. Yoga and understand yoga and, like, what it really is on a deeper level. And I'm happy because that almost feels like it's quenching the spiritual thirst that we have or this disbalance that we've just been charging on ahead, and we are getting to the edge of where logic alone can take us. And I think that's where the feminine comes back in hard and very necessarily. [00:32:02] Speaker A: I love how you say that. It makes me think about devotion. And when I think about yoga, I. I truthfully think about discipline. And I know they're very two separate things, devotion and discipline. But I would love to know how you see that with your yoga and your yoga practice. Because I am like, my personality type is very all or nothing. So I'm like, I need to commit to this and I need to go hard at this. And so I would love to know how your relationship with yoga over the years of practice has that ebbed and flowed? Like, has there been. Because I think sometimes we need that discipline to keep devoted, if that makes sense. And so I'd love to know how that has sort of fluctuated for you and what keeps bringing you back. Like, what you've touched keeps bringing you back. Yeah, I'm just curious around that. [00:33:20] Speaker B: I'm going to answer the Portion first of just this idea of what keeps bringing me back. Because there is an element of discipline. And I think it's interesting that you think of discipline when you think of yoga, because I also do think of that, and not a lot of people do. A lot of people think of, like, softening and, you know, flow or things like that. And it's all of the above. Right. But I also do really think of the element of discipline. But what keeps coming, what keeps me coming back is all of these feelings I'm trying to describe about yoga through my writing. It's really the inspired feeling, being alive. It is a deep, deep sense of presence. And I think that we talk about this sense of presence in so many different ways. And yoga, you know, well, the ultimate liberation goal, or if we talk about samadhi and things like that, they can feel big and lofty and, like, far away. Like, what do you mean? Enlightenment? You know, that's such a crazy thing. Like, do I even want that? Do I want to be detached? You know, but beyond that of enlightenment, I think just this sheer presence and, like, getting to experience your aliveness in such a vibrant way, it's just spectacular. And the only way that I can describe it in sort of a mundane way, which I do often, is imagining a morning when maybe you wake up on vacation somewhere, inspiring. And. And you just have like a. You wake up and you feel like that general sense of the day could hold anything. There's a sense of mystery, there's a sense of excitement. There's kind of an energy to you. And imagine you get out of bed and you walk and you pour yourself a tea or a coffee or whatever you want. And then you go out and sit outside and look at nature. And as you're just sipping your cup of tea, you just feel this like. Like you're just there. You know, you're just in that moment. Nothing else is. Nothing is wrong, nothing matters. It's just you're not thinking about what you have to do or what's coming. You're just alive. And in that moment, like, that's. That's the feeling that yoga helps me touch. Like, anywhere in the sweaty studio, in the weird part of town, right? Or here at home, anywhere. And I think for that reason, like, yoga is so, so magical. And that's what keeps me coming back. It's even that feeling, like, right at the start of class, I practice a lot of rocket and Ashtanga kind of practices where it's just samasthitihi. And then we go and you Know, you begin with a chant or you begin to breathe this deep ujjayi and it's just, yeah, it just triggers you into that, that state after a while. So that keeps me coming back. But it's not always easy to show up. And the element of discipline has been very present for me. I also will say that I have always been almost to a fault, a disciplined person with many things, except for the weird, like random small things that are, I can't seem to bring myself to do. But you know, for the most part I've built like a sense of trust in my word in terms of like, if I say I'm going to do it, I will show up and I will do it. And with yoga I take a 50, 50 approach. Some days I show up like that where I, because I said that I would. And other days I really just see what I want to do. And if I want to go or if I don't want to practice or if I don't, you know, want to do anything, then I won't. But yeah, I think yoga is deeply about devotion and discipline because it's not always, at least in the kind of yoga that I do, it's not always about just moving your body in a way that feels good. [00:37:17] Speaker A: Good. [00:37:17] Speaker B: I think that's one form of practice that's become very popular. But I also practice forms of yoga where it's more about showing up for something that's greater than you, that's bigger than you, that's infinitely more knowledgeable than you, which is the whole yoga in general. Right. No matter how you're practicing or whatever form you are, when you can remember that. And it's not just like you're showing up to move your body in a way that feels, feels good. Or like, especially not showing up just to work out your body. Right. Or to try to get a six pack doing Navasana all day. I don't know when we can move beyond that and we can actually like touch that, that sense of devotion. We recognize that that discipline is almost like an offering to the yoga. [00:38:15] Speaker A: Beautiful. [00:38:17] Speaker B: Do. [00:38:17] Speaker A: What do you feel that yoga is becoming in the next generation? Like, what are you seeing when you're teaching? Like, how do you think it has changed over the years? Have you noticed a shift in what. Yeah, how people are approaching it now? Like the way that you talk about it. For me, it's really bringing the sacredness back. And so, yeah, I would love to know what you're seeing when you're, you're teaching and just what you've experienced in the community. [00:38:52] Speaker B: Sacred is a great word, and that would be my hope absolutely for the future of yoga. However, I think it's almost even hard for me to think about how it has changed because my own perception and my own understanding has changed so much. I don't know. You know, I don't really remember what was going on 10 years ago when I was first starting to practice. Like, what I sense and, like, the admiration I had for my teachers is very based on how they were being, you know, also how they just held themselves, how they looked, their capabilities. I was attracted to their energy in general. And I don't know exactly. I couldn't even recall and truthfully tell you what their little Dharma chats were on or if they had them or, like, is that. Should Dharma chats really be responsible for moving us closer to yoga? You know, And I do think that there are a lot of people right now interested in learning more from the source. Right. And learning more from teachers who are from the source culture and learning more. More about the origin of yoga. And. Yeah, and that is like a whole other thing that is a growth journey for me as well, because for a long time, I think that I would take any teaching on yoga and be like, oh, wow, cool. I love it. And at a certain point, yeah, you have to have that discernment and start to like, okay, I'm only going to take teaching and advice from these kind of people who I respect and who, you know, are doing things in the way that I want and who are. Who have lived an experience that I find to be valuable. You know, you've got to kind of shut off a little bit of the noise because, yeah, I mean, yoga is in everything. Like, you can find yoga and everything, but not everything is yoga. You know, not everything is like yoga in terms of its tradition. So I guess to answer your question, I'm hoping that it's moving towards the direction of sacred, and it is at the same time splitting off into infinite different little parts that are hard to. For us to even comprehend. The. The ultimate impact of that, honestly. [00:41:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I love. I love the thought of. [00:41:30] Speaker B: This is just. [00:41:30] Speaker A: Me personally, like, more of the analog coming back. So I like the. The theory of, you know, going into. Yeah. The realm of yoga. And I think there is something so potent around being around other people when you're doing a yoga practice. And then when you're in that state and you're going through the postures, just the teacher saying, you know, in these classes that I've been in, Just saying like one line and then I just remember thinking about it for the rest of the hour practice and how much that can impact you. And then you're thinking about that after. And I think there is like you mentioned about presence. I would have to say, when I've looked back on my experience, that is exactly what it has given me as well. And so, so I think, yeah, that it's that space and that slowing down and really, ultimately just getting in touch with you, yourself and your voice and your thoughts is, you know, it's not that rocket science. It's just really coming of yeah. Who we are. So I hope that, yeah. More of this movement of. Yeah. Coming together in a studio space. Space. Yeah. Feels. Feels really good and feels really nourishing. [00:43:05] Speaker B: I think it's so nourishing, the connection, the social connection between it, the hearing of the teacher's words. I mean, it's one moment where we are mostly undistracted for an entire hour, 90 minutes, if we're lucky, we're barefoot, we're there with other adults, you know, just, just taking a complete pause from the rest of our day to day life. And that's why I'm like, I personally believe those studio classes are really valuable gateways for people into that first experience of presence. We hear it all the time that, wow, when Shavasana, this feeling hit me and it's like, yeah, the feeling of taking a pause hit you. Now imagine what else is possible, if that's possible. [00:43:57] Speaker A: Yes, yes. Really. And I guess essentially that, yeah, it's coming back to the definition of yoga to, you know, unite and. Yeah. Come together. I really love that. I wanted to ask you, if the original yogis were observing how yoga is practiced today, what do you think they would recognize and what do you think would surprise them? [00:44:31] Speaker B: I have absolutely no idea what they would say. I really, I really don't know. I. I mean, maybe they could be excited that so many people are finding out about it. It. They could be terrified. Because a lot of these yogic techniques were traditionally given from guru to student when student was ready. Right. And that's another thing. In the West, I feel like we, I'm speaking of the west, like in America, States, but like all over the world, really, sometimes we have this idea of like, wanting to like, oh, let me unlock it all, let me have it all immediately, this sort of instant gratification. And so they might look at it like that and be concerned. And as far as what they would recognize, I'm sure that they would recognize that Underlying sense of presence and that energy, like energetically. I do believe that many people are reaching deeper states of spiritual understanding. Not from that first class, maybe if it's a fantastic class. Right. Anything is possible. But because of yoga, I think that they are moving in that direction for the most part. And that's, that's why I believe in it and that's why I'm excited about it. So part of me wants to think that they would recognize that. That energy and that meditation. Right. I think that when we're speaking about, and because we haven't spoken too much about it, this conversation, I'll bring it in now too. Which is meditation. Right. We hear it all the time that yoga is to prepare the body for meditation. And that is super true. And even like definitions often that are given of like yogi or doing yoga, it's like realizing or attaining the. The full, purest nature of meditation. And so I do think that there's also a real big push for meditation, which is sometimes not even spoken of in context of the yoga. But that's going on and that's fantastic. It's really, really wonderful. Changed my life, changed many of the other people that I've interviewed and many of my friends and my family as well. [00:46:58] Speaker A: Yes. And I feel that that isn't even spoken about in the realm of y. That there is this mantra element. There is the meditation practice like you mentioned, and there's the breath and yeah. Coming back to. Yeah. Not it just being and the self and the self discovery and the self understanding and more of the ethical and the morals and how to live in alignment with ourselves. I feel like there's just so much encompassing the whole world. Yes. And so, yeah, not just focusing on. Yes. It has that physical element because you can speak more to this, but using the body like you mentioned, or for our awareness, for our consciousness to move through. I'm getting in tune with that because a lot of the time we're kind of like, I feel this with technology and stuff like that we're not in our body. So I feel like, you know, there's, you know, in Ayurveda we would say too much vata, too much air and not being grounded. And so when I think of yoga as well, I feel it is a very grounding practice from like more of the Vedic astrology level lens. We would say that we want to practice yoga every day to ground us because the moon is changing her phases every day. So if we have that consistent practice, we're like giving that blessing to the moon. And so, yeah, I think there is so much like you touched on that even if we aren't practicing that physical aspect of yoga, we're practicing it in other ways ways through our meditation, through our mantra, through how we're aligning our life and our words. And like you said, really like leaning into doing what you're saying that you're going to do. Like, to me, that is part of the heart of yoga. Like, that is the yoga philosophy is just like being in alignment with. With who you are. [00:49:21] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. This feeling of alignment and becoming impeccable with your word and with your action and all of that is you could trace back to yoga, you know, And I think there's something really interesting too, of what's going on with the physical body, especially in the modern age. And why the yoga practice, like we're talking like studio asana practice, it really can still be very transformative of for people, is because we don't move our bodies, we become incredibly stagnant. You know, the flow of energy around the body is just not flowing. And it's like, how can we expect ourselves to go through changes and adapt and, like, deal with all the things that are going on? If we are just completely stagnant inside, the way that we react is going to be angry. And like, I mean, it's like if, you know, when you have an upset stomach, like, how everything is just harder and like worse, you know, And I think that so many of us are living with that sort of like stagnation in many different ways beyond just the digestive system. But that's something really interesting that I will share in this moment, that it's been true for me and it's been true for several other teachers that I've spoken with. And that's also just the fact that when we're doing a practice like Ashtanga, I'll use that in example. You were really folding and twisting and pushing on your belly, in your gut, your intestines, in so many different ways. And there is a strong, strong, strong gut brain connection, which we know. But when you experience some of the blessings of the practice and just feeling better, it's also, in my opinion, can be because the gut is feeling better. It's like less stagnant. It's. I heard it described once in a Korean tradition of a form of yoga, body and brain. They, they call it, and they described it as a stagnant river or a stagnant stream rather, versus a river. And so the energy within our bodies, and I'm sure you're familiar too with this in your own practices. It's a pretty universal thing, right? This flow of energy, this idea of the flow of energy. But. But if it gets stagnant and it gets all kind of dammed up and the energy is not flowing, the stomach is doing that same exact thing, the intestines and gut in general, it's stagnant. Right. The energy cannot move and it becomes a very toxic environment. And so that's going on inside of us if we're not moving our bodies, and that's just a fact, doesn't mean you must do five sun salutations, patience A and 5B, and then you're good. It could be so many different things, but I do believe that that deep, that bending, that forward folding, which ironically. Right. Is intended as. As a prayer and as an offering more I think than anything that it was originally focused on a benefit. Right. But it deeply benefits us. And I think that in that way, yeah, devotion to the yoga practice is very symbolic because. Because you were showing up to dedicate yourself to this practice. And in turn, the practice is giving you so much vitality. And one of the ways it does that is through the physical body with that flow of energy that. That's what you feel when you get to Shavasana and you've just moved all the energy around in your body. Sometimes you sweat profusely sometimes. And you've created this sort of vacuum space where you've cleared out the energy and from there what could come in, anything reminds you that you have a blank slate. [00:53:16] Speaker A: That's beautiful because when I, when you painted that picture of like the digestion and moving that and the flow and the energy, I think about in Ayurveda we will say if you can't digest your food, then you're not digesting life. And I think about. Yeah. Coming back to that practice again. And I have to share this with you. When I was, I was really very big into hot yoga in my, in my 20s, I was so religious about it. And I would. It was back then, it was an hour and a half practice. And for the first hour, every single time for many years, going three or four times a year, sorry, a week, every time in my mind, for the first hour, I would be saying to myself, why am I here? Why did I do this? Like, why, why, why? I don't know if you ever have that experience, but then that lasts a half an hour. And then after the class I was like, of course, like, this is the best thing ever. And then the cycle Continued. Do you know what I mean? [00:54:27] Speaker B: Like, it always. [00:54:28] Speaker A: I always went back and I. I just. Yeah, I just, like, could never break that, but that was my experience. So I don't know if you were ever on the mat and you're just like, why am I here? Like, what am I doing? And then by the end of the practice, it all becomes very clear, and you actually don't walk in the same, you know, leave the same way that you walked in. It's. Yeah. Quite incredible truth. [00:54:56] Speaker B: Yeah, that happens all the time to me. [00:54:58] Speaker A: Okay, that's good. I've never shared that with anyone. So I. I was like, oh, maybe everyone's just, like, loving this all the time. Yeah, maybe. I always ask on my podcast. The. The reason that I started starbing is because I really wanted to obviously connect with feminine wisdom. And I wasn't. I couldn't see a lot of that. I was searching for, like, being a seeker. I was searching for, you know, people like yourself that have this wisdom, lived experience. And I really wanted to get. Yeah. Their. Their wisdom of. Of what they've gained in. In their life. And so I always love to ask about, especially as women, about the aging process and about beauty, because I think they're tied in. And I think as women, it's something that we're always being shown this perfection. And I always am interested in how you navigate beauty and aging and your philosophy around it. Like, what is your. Yeah, just your philosophy on beauty, aging, like, and. Yeah, just anything that you want to share around that. [00:56:28] Speaker B: This is a big one, especially in anything related to the wellness industry. So I. I enjoy very much contemplating this subject. And I will also say I am 28, so you gotta ask me again when I'm, like, 83 too, because she's going to know. She's going to know the real wisdom. Right. But I think that it's. It's hilarious. Like, just the way. Yes. That it's just pushed constantly on us. Everywhere you look, there's just little different messages. And I'm not going to say that it's easy for me to ignore them, but I've chosen, and at least for right now, to ignore as many of them as I can. I think everything is relative, but there's always different things. I think about ourselves, that little buttons of insecurity get pushed in different ways. Whether it's like, wow, I didn't realize one of my eyebrows is lower than the other. Like, wow, I should fix that, right? Or like, oh, I had this crazy acne, which I did, like, right When I started the podcast, I was recovering from the worst acne that I had ever had because of a hormonal IUD that I had in just completely destroyed my skin. And for a long time, I was like, oh, I gotta get laser. I gotta, like, fix this. Like, if I'm gonna be teaching people these wellness practices, like, I must look well, right? It's kind of the. You know, wasn't thinking it that for that reason, but of course, in the back of your mind, it's like, it is hard to show up in front of people when you feel imperfect or when you're going through something. But I think it's really dangerous to be in this game of, like, I don't know, selling yoga is the fountain of youth, right? And then, like, doing all of these things because you're just worried about maintaining your youth. I think I have such an admiration for people who can embrace. Embrace aging, you know, and not compliment women like, oh, wow, you look so good for your age. Or like, you look so young. That's like a common compliment. Like, that's. I catch myself also thinking and saying those sort of things, but that's one that I really wish we would step away from. I really, really did. Or do, you know, And I. I also think that I've heard different people speak on this topic about how even things like wrinkles can be their. Their wisdom, right? They're just like. Like, it's all of the times in our lives that we've smiled and we've, like, done all of these things. It's. And yet it takes time to retrain that. It really, really does. And I don't know. I think it's. It's something that whatever people decide to do about it, as long as it's because they're choosing right and they're enjoying that process. And it's out of, like, love for yourself rather than out of fear. Because that's what makes me sad, is when it's out of fear. And I feel really grateful to have grown up with parents that just completely, beautifully embraced their aging processes and still are. And, like, I even think about, like, this one moment. Moment where my dad, like, when I. When I was little, he has this little bump on the side of his face. I don't know what it is, but it's always been there. And I remember when I was little, I was like, dad, what is that bump on the side of your face? You know, because it's odd. And you look at it and like, we're human. It's like, what's that? And he's like, oh, that's, that's a antenna for contacting aliens. Listen. And he pushes like. And I just think that's so, like, it's such a, a, it's such a fun way to think and reshape all of the oddities about us. And I think if I could give one piece of advice like to my past self and to others who are struggling with this, whether it's the beauty or the age or whatever it is. And it's, it's like actually the ways that we stand out or like the things about us that are most distinctive make up us iconic. Really like that's really what's happening. Like we don't need to train our own eye for beauty to look like everybody else. And it can be trained and it also can just be accepted. You know, there's many, there are many things about myself that I used to try to hide, like, and now it's not even some of them I don't still love, you know, and well, maybe they make me more recognizable or like more distinct. Maybe. I don't know, I also just kind of go like this doesn't actually matter that much and I'm just not going to give it my attention because we are not our thoughts. Right. Yoga teaches us we are the seer or watcher of our thoughts. So those thoughts, they don't have to ultimately be what we focus on. [01:01:50] Speaker A: Beautiful. [01:01:51] Speaker B: Thank you for sharing. [01:01:54] Speaker A: I would love to know where next for you? What is exciting you. You mentioned that you're 28, so approaching Saturn return. I would love to know, do you follow Vedic astrology? And also what is next for you? What is igniting you? And also where can my listeners follow you or grow deeper into your work? [01:02:26] Speaker B: So I actually don't follow that much Vedic astrology, but I have interviewed somebody recently who is telling me about it and it's deeply fascinating. I spend a lot of my time in that sort of world. Not that it's the same, but I love the Gene keys. I'm a Gene Keys girly, so that's my thing. Like I've read the gene keys forward and back and. Yeah, so I love that you've gone [01:02:52] Speaker A: to the root of that. [01:02:53] Speaker B: Yes, I have. [01:02:54] Speaker A: Human design. And then there's the Jane Kay root. Yep, I love that. [01:02:58] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, so I love Gene Keys and I love like looking at my profile and just, I love every chapter. I mean all these universal human archetypes I adore. I love archetypes. I think they're Very interesting ways of telling stories about. About who we are really as a species. And it's incredibly powerful. But, yeah, what's up next for me? When is the Saturn? I can't even remember. I'm like, I know Saturn return is approaching, but when is my actual Saturn return? Is there a specific date that it is? Because I don't know. [01:03:34] Speaker A: Yes. So it is generally between 28 to 30, and that's dependent. So on your particular chart, when that's activated for you. So, yeah, it'll be really interesting. [01:03:54] Speaker B: I can't say yet. We'll see. I do feel the 30s approaching, and I'm excited for it. I am really excited. Most of my friends are all, like, already in their 30s, in their mid-30s. I feel like I've always sort of had friends who are like five or so years older than I am. And it's such a gift because it feels almost like big sister advice in certain ways. But what's next for me? So I am really, really lit up right now about writing and putting it with music. Like, I love creating these. These immersive special episodes that I'm doing on the podcast where it's like a longer, extended version of what I create for reels, where there's, like, this poetic nature to it, this prose, this flow, this rhythm, this whole thing, and I just let myself get completely carried away. So I have many of those, like, immersive specials that if people want to see what I'm talking about, you can go to leadership and yoga and like, literally search immersive special. And I think I have like, five or six of them, but I really feel myself moving in that direction. I create podcasts that are, of course, chatty podcast and all of that, but I also love this element of, like, adding the music and the sound effects to it and, yeah, making it a bit immersive in that way, because I just find it moving. So I'm trying to do more of that. [01:05:27] Speaker A: It's really beautiful, the creativity. And that is what I take away when I see these reels of yours. You. You invoke that feeling. Yeah. And how you put that across, it's such an art form. So I'm excited for that. And I will definitely link your work so everyone can see what you're up to next. [01:05:51] Speaker B: Thank you. [01:05:52] Speaker A: Before we end, is there anything else that you would love to leave with? Is there any quote that you will say in a yoga class? Or is there anything that you. You think we should know or any parting words that you would like to leave with? [01:06:08] Speaker B: Sure. I actually, for the most part, don't say a whole lot in yoga classes like people may expect. I've started a little bit. Sometimes I will read something in shavasana of my work or some poetry that I remember. But that being said, I do have a quote that I like to leave always in like, a message, not necessarily for the context of the yoga, but I think for this podcast, it will be good, which is that your dreams are made for people like you. And what I really mean by this is that often I think when we have a dream or we have a vision, we tend to excuse it away and say, no, no, no, that's for people who are older than me or who are younger than me or who are wiser than me or richer than me or less busy than me or whatever the excuses. But truly, if you have that goal, if you have that dream, it's because it's for you and it is for people like you. And if there's one thing that I've learned, because I also didn't think doing things like this were for people like me, and now I think that's silly. But at one time that was very true for me. I. I think that the world needs people who are. Are following their dreams because that's what makes us the most lit up and that's what gives us the most energy. And that energy is incredibly contagious. And we need a world that is energized and lit up and yeah, has the ability to go out there and do things and approach all of these subjects that really, really matter in a world that's drowning in things that don't actually matter. So your dreams are made for people like you. You [01:07:54] Speaker A: beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. And I really see you living that and walking that. So thank you for your inspiration and being the way shower in that way. [01:08:09] Speaker B: Oh, well, thank you, Tara, for having me on the show. I really, really enjoyed this conversation. [01:08:14] Speaker A: Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for tuning in to Starbucks, being. May the wisdom shared resonate in your soul. Until next time, stay connected and keep reaching for the stars. This is starving. Signing off.