THE FORGOTTEN FEMININE FACE OF GOD with Anne Baring

[00:00:03] Speaker A: Welcome to Starbing. I'm Tara, your guide. Blending the wisdom of the stars, philosophy and soul centered conversation. Here we question, remember and reconnect with the stars, with self, with true being. I hope these conversations ignite within you resonance, awakening and a deeper knowing. Together we open to more truth, more magic, more you. [00:00:25] Speaker B: Welcome to episode 47, the Forgotten Feminine Face of God with Ann Behring. I very excited to bring this episode to you because it is a very special one for me. About six months ago I came across this book in my book collection and I instantly knew that this was the first book that we were going to read in my book club Lumen. And I was so like convicted by this. I hadn't even read the book myself and I had barely flipped through the, the contents of the book. That is how much I, I can't even explain it. And the thing with this book, I decided that and I just put it out there, I put it out there straight away. And then after I had done that I thought, oh, it'd be amazing if I could interview the author. And I went searching for her email contact details. I couldn't find it and so I kind of left it at that. But I did mention it to my assistant and then she was inspired to search. She came back to me, she said [00:01:54] Speaker A: I've got her email. [00:01:56] Speaker B: And so I emailed her straight away and she replied back to me straight away. This is how many synchronicities there was in this. And Anne has become now so close and dear to my heart. We have had a few sessions now within my book club, the First Circle with Anne and it has been an incredible journey. This book has unlocked, it's activated myself and the women that have been going through this journey. And why I'm so excited about this episode for you is because you get to have this information. And so if you're listening to this, this is the time for this information. And I just love Ann so much as a teacher and her wisdom. And so I with that I sit down with Anne who is a Jungian analyst. She is a historian. She is an author and co author of nine books. I also want to say that Ann is 95. Her life's work has been devoted to restoring the the feminine aspect of God and recovering the spiritual lineage that once honored nature, the cosmos and the sacred feminine. Anne's knowledge is vast, but her message is simple. We cannot understand our purpose, planet or our own soul until we restore the feminine principle that was systematically removed from our collective story. Her work reveals a truth many of us have felt, but never had the language for that. The feminine was not lost by accident. She was deliberately erased. In this conversation, we explore the shift from the Great Mother to the Great Father, the reinterpretation of Eve as the birth of consciousness rather than original sin, and the profound consequences of living in a world that forgot how to honor the feminine. We speak about the dangers of cultural digitization, the need for discernment in an age of accelerated technology, and why activating the feminine principle is essential for defending humanity's future. Anne shares the dreams and visions that shaped her vision, the books that influenced her lifelong devotion to restoring the feminine principle, and. And her philosophy on beauty and aging. I hope this episode awakens something ancient and powerful within you. [00:04:48] Speaker A: Welcome to Star Being Anne. It is such a pleasure to have you on. I have actually today just finished reading the Forgotten Feminine Face of God, and I had to reapply my makeup because it was just so. And I'm sure you get this all the time. It was so overwhelming with truth and beauty. And this book has really, really changed me. And that's why I'm so excited to talk to you, because I think all good books do they. That's what you want them to do. And so, yes, I want to thank you so much for. For writing this. And I don't even know if I'm very honest how your book came into my world. I must have purchased it at some point. And then before I even opened the book, I knew that it was the first book I wanted to have in my book club and I wanted a group of women to read it. And so this is the power of this book. So that is a long introduction for you. But, yeah, I just want to let you know of how much that has impacted me and the women as well that are reading this book. So thank you. [00:06:29] Speaker C: Well, of course, it's lovely to hear as an author, it's lovely to hear that one's work is being understood and read and particularly, as I directed it, to women, particularly young women who are perhaps in their 20s, 30s, maybe 40s, so that they could understand their history. And from that draw strength and confidence and courage, really, to take forward a totally new understanding of life, which I hope I've put into my book. And I'm sure that you've absorbed whatever you were able to absorb from it because it's quite a deep book. It needs a lot of concentration, and it has different aspects. Some are historical, some are psychological, some are spiritual. So you can't really separate them all. But I have separated them in the book to make it easier for people to read. [00:07:26] Speaker A: Yes, it is quite dense in the best way I would describe it, and very activating as well. And so, yes, all of that you have managed to do with this book. I would love to start, Ann, by actually asking you a little bit about your journey, your story. And I'm also curious about your mum and her writing. Well, you've written a book with the messages of a transcendent dimension from her. I would love to know the impact of growing up with her channelings and then how you think that impacted your path. [00:08:20] Speaker C: Yeah, well, that's a very good question and a very meaningful question because I was really influenced. My mother was extraordinary woman. She was a poet and she was an artist. And those were her two, as it were, avenues into the world. She was married to my father, who was from quite a different background and had very little understanding of the kind of person that she was. So this made the marriage rather difficult. But anyway, because of the war, obviously, 1939-45, she began to think about things more deeply. She was American, brought up in America, but also educated in Paris when she was 18. And she could have been a concert pianist, but her father stopped her doing that because it wasn't considered correct in those days. And also she was invited to be an actress on the Comedie Francaise, which was a tremendous honor. And again, she was forbidden to do that because women of her background just didn't appear on the stage. So that was that. But anyway, she developed her very great gifts as a poet. She met poets in Paris when she was 18, 19, that sort of age. So she was steeped in a cultural background, really, and particularly the culture of France. Yes, of France, mainly. And so she was 26 when she married, I think, and then had children quite quickly. And it wasn't really until after the war or. No, it was during the war, it was 1947 when she was in New York that she had this extraordinary experience of being with three other women, One her sister and her sister in law and a close friend who became the writer, so to speak, of the messages, with my mother sitting by her. Anyway, what happened then was that there was no storm outside, but suddenly they were in the top floor of an apartment building. And the glass door onto the balcony blew open inwards, which it never did normally, it was usually outwards. And there was a clap of thunder and a flash of lightning. And they were all terrified. The four women were terrified. And they fell on their knees because they knew this wasn't something ordinary. And then they suddenly felt a great presence in the room. And they asked the presence to speak to them. And he said, well, write down what I say. [00:10:50] Speaker B: And. [00:10:51] Speaker C: And so he began speaking. And he said, I am the wine and the breath of the one who is above the fire and the light and foremost. So that was quite a message to receive. And my mother said, what should we do? And the message came, follow your heart. And my mother said, well, should we go to church? And the answer came, your church is your immortal soul. So that was the beginning of the messages. And from then on, she met with the French woman who was a great friend every six months, sometimes every three months, for many years until 1968. And the messages that I put into the book that I published were the quintessence of what they received during those years, 20 something years. So that was my formation. I would have been at that time in New York, I suppose about 12, 11, something like that. I was not told about that particular experience, but I was told about the later messages and even was given messages for myself. I was told to prepare, that I had a teaching mission ahead of me. And how could I have known at 13 what I would become at 94? So this laid the foundation of my life. I had great faith in Jesus, where the messages came from, and St. Francis, that was the other person, and also a lovely Persian guide called Asraf, who my mother was greatly connected with. So that was my formation, really, from the age of about 13, 14, when we returned to England after the war. And they continued all through my teenage years and my twenties. And so I was kind of formed by the understanding that there was something else besides this world that I had to pay attention to. And later I had my own dreams and awakening process, but that was the foundation. And it put me in touch with the other world, so to speak, the transcendent world. When I was quite young and obviously impressionable, I used to help my mother with her poetry to get it into publication format. And I was able to do that. She did publish a book of poems, in fact, several. So that was the formation of my life. And that laid the ground of it, even though I had to develop my intellect by going to Oxford University, reading medieval history, Renaissance history as well. So that was my interest, was medieval history. And that led me to alchemy. And it led me also to the people called Cathar in the south of France, who were very spiritual teachers connected with Mary Magdalene and who were wiped out, unfortunately, by something called the Albigensian Crusade in 1209. So all that historical sort of information I gathered to myself and sort of. It percolated like coffee for many years until it was ready to be drunk or ready to be put out. And so that was the beginning, really. The degree I got at Oxford was useful for teaching purposes later on, and it was also very interesting. And I met a lot of people there, which was good and helpful to my career. And then when I was 25, after I'd left university and had had various kind of nondescript jobs, I was offered an extraordinary opportunity by an encyclopedia in Rome to travel to the Far east and to go to every country except China, which was out of bounds, and to go to the museums there and ask the curators for the very best pictures of the work of art, the best works of art that they have in their museums. So I did that, and that took me a year, and I really was. It wasn't dangerous at that time. It was before the age of hippies and murders and et cetera, et cetera. So I was absolutely free to go from country to country, which was very easy. You just jumped on a plane for the next country. You didn't need a visa. It was very easy and not expensive at all. And I think the whole journey cost me something like £200, which is incredible. But I did have an uncle in Bangkok who was ambassador there, and that helped, giving me introductions to countries further east, like Taiwan, for example. So I had an extraordinary year exploring these countries and also coming in contact with Hinduism and Buddhism and Daoism. I finally wrote a book called the One Work. That was the first book I wrote when I was about 28 or 29. And just after that I got married. So that basically is the story of the beginning of my life. And then later on, I had a dress shop for 12 years. And then I focused all my attention on writing books and I moved to the country where I had more time and I'd stopped my analytical work and began to write. And that's when I began to write the Dream of the Cosmos and then this last book, the Forgotten Feminine Face of God. Because it was quite clear to me from my historical studies that the feminine archetype had just been blanketed out, so to speak, or eradicated. Just didn't exist in people's consciousness. It had existed for thousands of years, right up until the middle of the bronze age, about 2000 BC, and then it began to disappear. And so there were no more temples to the Goddess, no more priestesses. There had been in every culture There had been priestesses and temples to the Goddess and this was a terrible loss for people because there was nowhere to put their love really for the feminine principle. And also there was nothing to connect them with nature because the Goddess had always, always represented nature. She was nature and she was also the cosmos. She was both, so to speak. So with the loss of the Goddess, you lost your connection with nature. Perhaps I should stop there and let you go on with other questions. If you want. [00:17:25] Speaker A: Yes, thank you, Ann. I, yeah, it just, it blows me away how you've co authored nine books in total now, is that correct? And it just, it is such a incredible work. How you've been able to do that and especially with your, your latest book, how you know, as we mentioned, how dense it was and how much work has gone into this. There must be part of you that is just a seeker and really wanting to get to the truth and just fascinated by that and inspired by that quest. What has given you that, that motivation and that, that drive to create these incredible pieces and works? [00:18:26] Speaker C: Well, I think first of all it was the preparation, which I wasn't really conscious that I was preparing for something later on because one isn't when one's 20 or 31 is more involved with getting married, having children, bringing up a child and a grandchild, etc. So I wasn't really focused on that. But then in, in my 40s, I went into Jungian analysis because I suffered from severe depression, which probably was inherited from my father, who also had depression. But in those days, in his days, nobody knew what it was. It was just he was feeling sad or cross or whatever, so it couldn't be treated. But with me, I knew that I had to do something, otherwise it would ruin the life of my husband and daughter. So I went into Jungian analysis, analysis and I was with one male analyst for 11 years. And then he said, I think he heard that Gerhard Adler, who was one of the two editors of Jung's collected works, he said, I've heard that Gerhard Adler is looking for students to become trainees, to become union analysts. Would you like to go and apply? So I did. And before I went, I had a dream which that analyst wasn't able to interpret. But I took it to Gerhardt who immediately understood it. And it was a dream that I was in a rocket going to the moon and I landed on the moon. And on the moon there was this gigantic structure like the Eiffel Tower, iron, all metal and quite huge really. I mean, three or four times the size of The Eiffel Tower. And the moon, of course, was completely dead, which it is apparently in real life. And I got into a train which appeared from somewhere and traveled across the surface of the moon until I was dumped in some water pool of water at the end. And then I woke up. So that was the first really big dream I had. And I Gerhardt said, well, the moon is always the symbol of the Great Mother. Always was the symbol of the Great Mother. And I knew nothing at that time about the Great Mother or anything to do with the past. And he said, this seems to me that the stream is saying that the feminine principle is having something imposed on it that is utterly alien to it, this iron structure. And he said, your time will be to dismantle this Ian structure within yourself before you do anything else. Not in the culture, but in yourself, because it's too powerful in your own psyche and you need to get the balance better between the masculine and feminine archetypes. So I went into analysis with his wife, Hella Adler, who had studied with Emma Jung and who was Jung's wife. And she really initiated me into the meaning of the feminine principle. I stayed with her another 11 years. So that was 22 years of analysis altogether. So that was a really a path of devotion, if you like. It was almost like entering a monastery or a convent and spending a life of devotion in prayer. So that was what the whole formation of those 22 years was. But in the meantime, I also had a shop when I was just ending the analysis with the first person. And that lasted for 12 years. And that was in London, near Harrods. And I designed beautiful evening dresses for women because in those days women still wore long dresses when they went to the theater, that sort of thing. So I was doing that. And then I became more and more interested in being an analyst and having clients. Exciting. And I practiced for 20 years in London as an analyst. But then I had this other amazing dream in my 40s when I was in the middle of analysis with Dr. Adler Heller Adler. And that dream was the most extraordinary dream of my life because it was a vision. It wasn't only a dream, it was a vision. And it was a vision of the Goddess. And I was lying. I won't go into the whole dream because I've described it in the book. But I was lying on the ground, caught in a net, gazing up at the sky, and I saw this immense figure of a woman going from earth to heaven, so to speak. And she was naked, she had longish hair, and she had an Enormous wheel, or. I don't know whether it was a wheel or something else in her abdomen. Abdomen. And I looked down at my body and I had the same. Only mine was over on the left, not centered. And she indicated to me, without speaking. She didn't speak. She just said in words, without speaking, you are to center your wheel, which means to become more conscious in Jungian terms. So that was what I did. After that. I did more analysis. I tried to become aware of. Of the whole feminine principle in a much more profound way, as I'd had the experience of actually seeing her in person. Because that was a dream that really shook me to my foundation. It completely changed the orientation of my life. It shocked me into waking up to what the goddess was and that she was still there. She didn't just exist 4,000 years ago. She was still there in. In the cosmos. And my job was to serve her really like a priestess would have served her in, say, an Egyptian temple of Hathor or something like that. So that's the story, really. And that's what drove me to write the dream of the cosmos, which was really, for me, it was an initiation into a much deeper understanding of life, which I tried to put into the book and then to go on to write this final book on the lost feminine aspect of God, because it was so important for world culture, because it's not only Europe and America that's lacking the goddess, but it's all over the world. China, for instance, is lacking the image of the Kuan Yin and the image of the relationship with nature that the Daoists had. That seems to have completely gone. And. And they have instead a terrible technocratic culture now with people virtually enslaved by their technology. They can't move without their government knowing what they're doing. And I'm afraid this is moving towards us. This model is that people are trying to copy it, and the first thing is to get digital IDs. So that's where we are now. And we need to be aware of what's happening in the world. And we need to protest against further digitalization of our culture and any takeover of our lives by elements that wish to control us. And that would be activating the feminine principle in defense of humanity. So it goes very deep. That book is really a call to wake up to what's happening. And that's why I put chapter 13 in, which might have been risky, but I thought it should go in because it was part of the whole feminine aspect of life, which needs to be protected because we are vulnerable in Our humanity, because of the strength of the masculine principle, we are vulnerable to being controlled by it. Just like the Eiffel Tower on the moon. [00:26:10] Speaker A: No, thank you for putting that chapter in, because I feel it is shining the light and I'm not seeing conversations around it. And this has brought up conversations around this technology, definitely for me, and I'm having that now with people around me. Before I go into that part with you, I recently found out that to be a Jungian analyst, I read somewhere that you can only commence that study once you've reached a certain age. And that is quite a significant undertaking. So I just wanted to hear from you if that is correct. [00:27:02] Speaker C: Yes, it is correct. Because until you've lived your life up to the age of 40, say you haven't had enough experience of life to lay the foundation for an understanding of Jungian psychology. You can't start it in your 20s because you're not ready yet. You haven't had relationships, you haven't had children, you haven't had whatever your job might be and develop fully then in that job to a real mastery of it, whatever that might be. So that you know what you're talking about. About. And you have that foundation then for going much deeper into the causes of human suffering, into the understanding of what the psyche is and what the unconscious is particularly, and why the conscious mind has become split off from the unconscious, so that we're only living in a small piece of ourselves, so to speak. I usually. I use the image of a diagram which has a tiny yellow triangle at the top, which is our conscious mind. And all the rest is the unconscious, which is also nature and the cosmos. It includes everything. So if you are cut off from everything, you're living your life in a very limited mode, as it were. Too much, too narrow for your capacity to become a much more developed person, a greater person, really more rounded, more conscious, more able to help people. But you can do a lot in your 20s, which I presume you're in now, or your early 30s. You can do a lot in preparing the ground by developing your interest in all the things that might come to you later on. But the actual understanding of the psyche, you need to be developed in your psyche before you can understand it. Do you see what I mean? [00:28:57] Speaker A: Yes, I do. And thank you. You're very kind. I am 41 currently, so I would take that as a nice compliment. So thank you. [00:29:06] Speaker C: Okay. Well, you're just reaching the stage when you could go into analysis, but it may not be necessary to do that. You may have enough understanding of life and other people and the problems of the world, much more than I had when I was your age. Because in my 40s I was. I don't know what I was doing, but I was in my shop stage, I think, making beautiful dresses, but not really thinking about anything in depth and not really worried by the world, what was going on in the world. I was much too focused on my own life. And then after that, we began to get into the whole climate change business and more wars, et cetera, et cetera, until we are where we are now. So I think it's accelerated. I would say that I wouldn't rule out starting earlier because everything has accelerated in the last 20 or 30 years. The psyche of woman as well as man has developed. There's much better relationship or some better relationship between men and women which didn't exist before, although they're huge problems still. But still that there has been progress and there's been progress with understanding children and what children need, understanding the dangers of social media for children. So there's a greater sensitivity, I would say, to the problems in the world and the problems of the individual woman or man, our child in the world. So it's not too early to start analysis. I would say you were just at the right age, but before that, I think it would be difficult because you're still getting into your life in your 30s. [00:30:48] Speaker A: Yes, yes. I think that is really great to have that platform and even to have not think about that until you're older. Like you said, you need a platform, you need a foundation to understand yourself. I would love to go back, Anne, to the loss of the divine feminine. And what I have really taken away from your book is changing our image at our concept of God. Because I grew up in quite a strict religious upbringing until I was around 14. And so I have quite a religious. I do have that religious background. And it had never occurred to me in all of my life that there, because of these, I think, leftover residue of the religious upbringing that there even could be a feminine aspect to God. And when I say this to you, it sounds very elementary, but it wasn't until I read your book and it started activating in the way of thinking. Of course. Of course there's the feminine divine aspect of that, and it has been hidden. And speaking to the dreams, which I definitely want to go into more with you because there is something happening in the dream realm, in that unconscious realm, because I had this dream that I was told that we've forgotten that the feminine is the ruler of this realm, and we're the protector. And I woke up and remembered that dream completely. And then that's when I found your book. And this is sort of unraveled. So it was the. Like, my consciousness was ready for this piece of information that your book and you as that guide, as that teacher has provided. So I would love to know this loss of the feminine that you describe in the book and how she has been suppressed, how she's been removed. And then I also want to get your thoughts on my thoughts around the removal of the feminine, the removal of Mary Magdalene, if that. We are now remembering it with books like yours. And the feminine, I think is going through this divine awakening. Can we rewrite, recode, so that we can change the. The impact, the direction of where we're going, which is essentially your work. But I would just love your thoughts around that. [00:33:53] Speaker C: Well, obviously it's a huge subject going back thousands of years, but I think that in earlier cultures, say Sumer or Egypt or Greece even, there was a balance between the masculine and the feminine. There were gods and goddesses. There wasn't a single God. You began to move towards a single God in Greek culture when you had Zeus, the prime male God. And then all the goddesses were his daughters. Instead of being goddesses in their own right, they were his daughters. So that was a huge change. And that was the beginning of the change into the great father from the Great Mother. So we can sort of trace that along. And certainly in Western civilization we can do that. I'm not speaking about China and India because they're quite different. India's retained goddesses and gods right up to the present time. Each God has his goddess or so to speak. But in the west, it was absolutely different. And the main reason for that was the emphasis on conquest. I think that began in the Bronze. Bronze Age with the discovery of bronze as a better weapon than iron, for instance. So there was more capacity for fighting and killing in wars. And then you began to have the emphasis on conquest, the huge conquests of territory, culminating in Alexander the Great, who conquered everything from Greece up to Afghanistan. Can you imagine the hugeness of that territory? But he did some things that came well out of that. Was the Greek culture spread from Greece as far as Afghanistan. You even had Greek sculptures in Afghanistan of the Buddha made by sculptors who were obviously trained in the Greek tradition. Anyway, that's a fascinating side thing, but I've always been bothered by the male God, partly because I had a difficult father, probably, and I didn't like the idea of a male God controlling everything. And also I could see how the three patriarchal religions were inspired by this image of God and claimed him as their own, so to speak. So you had sibling rivalry between the religions, all worshiping the same God image. No sign of the feminine anywhere. So there was nothing to mitigate the emphasis on conquest. And we're still in that which is so dreadful, really. We haven't moved beyond it because it's become an addiction that is very hard to fight. And all countries prepare for war in times of peace, or they did until recently. They haven't got enough money now in my country, there's no money to prepare for war. So that may be a break on the whole process as far as my country's concerned. But it bothered me. And so I began to wonder about this. And although the messages didn't speak of God as feminine and masculine, they did speak of the Holy Mother a great deal, and the Holy Mother being the Virgin Mary, but something beyond her, which I only vaguely intuited as they came through the messages, that there was something beyond the Virgin Mary, who was really a co director of. Of the universe with this male image of God. So it began to sort of grow in me. And finally I got the historical knowledge of what had happened and how and when and why we lost the image of the Goddess. Going back particularly to Hebrew culture, when they actually deleted the Goddess from the Godhead. She was in the Godhead and she was married to Yahweh. And so Yahweh lost his wife, so to speak, and she disappeared. And nobody within a few generations could remember that she'd ever existed. But she continued to exist in Kabbalah. That was so interesting. And I think that Kabbalah carried the knowledge and wisdom of the first Temple, where we lost the image of the Goddess. I think it carried it through, right through, through into the present day. Because it's the only tradition that has the feminine aspect of deity with the masculine image of deity. They are bride and husband and wife, so to speak, but absolutely bound together. And you can't have one without the other. And that was a real shocking discovery or exciting discovery that I made when I studied Kabbalah with a man called Warren Kenton. And I could see how that feminine influence came down through the mystical tradition of Judaism, not through the orthodox one, but through the mystical tradition. And this was called the Voice of the Dove. That was one of the things, the Voice of the Dove. I can't remember the other title, I'm afraid, because my memory's not so good now. So that really set me on my path to. To write this book. I thought, well, it's high time people knew this history. It's high time they knew what we've lost. And high time that they knew when the spirit was cut off from nature, or nature was cut off from spirit, which was precisely in 623 BCE because when we lost the goddess, we lost the connection of spirit and nature. We lost the fact that they were together, really always considered to be cosmos and this dimension were all one. They were never split off with this dimension, completely cut off from the divine dimension. But then we moved on in European history. We moved into scientific materialism, which from about 1650 began to take a hold on Western civilization. Civilization, particularly in Europe. And gradually they got scientific materialism, got rid of both God and the soul. No need for either, they said, we only have this material dimension that we're living in. That's all that there is. There's no such thing as a greater cosmos that we're part of. There's no such thing as a transcendent reality, no such thing as God. And forget about the soul. And consciousness originates in the brain. We develop it, as it were, from the brain cells when we're born. So this was a totally new and deadening philosophy that took a great hold on Europe. And this is what young people have been educated into for about two or 300 years now. So it's deeply embedded. Christianity was still there, and you had the Christian God and you had the Virgin Mary, particularly strong in France and Italy. But you didn't have the image of the divine feminine in the Godhead until, I think it was 1950, when, I can't remember which pope, but it's in the book. It's in the dream of the cosmos, actually, when the Virgin Mary was accepted into the bridal chamber on an equal position as the God. So there you do have the sacred marriage, which you always had in Sumer in Egypt, in Greece, you always had the sacred marriage. And then we lost it after Greece. And that was that until the present time, when evidently that Pope, in answer to a huge number of petitions, saw that there was a need to acknowledge the feminine principle and put it back into the Godhead. That was a huge step that hasn't been really noticed or commented on. But Jung noticed it, and he said that this will change the relationship between men and women. Men will have to respect women more, and women will understand what's happened and will come into the full knowledge of their divinity. So this is an enormous change that happened in 1950 and also 1954, I think there was another encyclical when she was taken up into the bridal chamber. But all of this hasn't worked through the culture. We have the appalling amount of pornography, we have the appalling rape of women still and bad treatment of women in close relationships. And we have really a failure, although women are entering into business and into sort of banking and into politics and into many other spheres where their influence is considerable. But there's still not exactly jealousy, but a slight contempt for women. But we certainly have it in England still. And it's a real pain because women have to struggle against that, in addition to trying to bring up the families that they have and maintain some connection with the world in the form of a business that they may be part of. So there's a huge strain on women, much greater strain than there is on men, because they have to balance two worlds, the world of business and the world of home. And all this technology, although they're quite good at it, has been difficult to actually enter into this new era when technology seems to taken over everything. [00:43:18] Speaker A: Yes, I am definitely seeing that in the corporate world particularly. And I sort of see it as the pendulum has swung. It's almost as though the women have felt so suppressed and haven't had their voices heard. And now I see the. The divine, not the divine feminine, but more of like that wounded feminine is rising and sort of, as you said, more of that contempt towards men. And I'm seeing that on both sides. I'm seeing the. Both the male, the masculine and the feminine kind of making a case against why they don't need each other, [00:44:01] Speaker B: is [00:44:02] Speaker A: what that I am saying, seeing. And that reverence for each other, I'm waiting to see for that to come back. [00:44:12] Speaker C: Yes, it's certainly gone because there's no real kind of empathy or affection like there used to be. I mean, falling in love used to be something that people did. Nowadays it's all about having a sexual relationship and getting. Getting over it soon and then having another one. It's serial sexual relationships without any feeling, values involved. It's purely a function. And that is a tragedy because sex always used to be sacred in the past and was sacred in Christianity as well. And the birth of a child was sacred. So all that has been forgotten and lost. And I'm trying to bring it back in my book because the birthing of a child is a supremely important moment in a woman's life as well as A child. And in hospitals now, there's no recognition of that whatsoever. You're just on a conveyor belt and you're out as soon as you've had the baby sort of thing, which is absolute disgrace. And many children are dying and mothers are dying in childbirth because of the neglect that has taken place. So this is being addressed in my country, at least it's been noticed and something being done about it. But its origin is in scientific materialism, which says it doesn't matter what you do to the body because the soul isn't there anyway, and you just have to treat the body as a mechanism. But I agree with you that there is a coldness and a sort of appraisal of one to the other. Is this good enough for me? This man or this woman? What can I get out of him or her? Not. What can I give? [00:45:49] Speaker A: Yes. [00:45:50] Speaker C: What can I offer? [00:45:52] Speaker A: Yes. And this takes me back to what you mentioned in your book about the myth of the Great Fall. And it feels like there has been an overlaying like this, maybe an inversion of sin and guilt that the feminine has taken on. And I know through reading your book, when you really dissected the myth of the Fall, I felt really liberated from that and that I didn't have to take on that story. And I didn't even realize I had taken on that story until I read that. And I thought, wow, I didn't even realize the levels that this was still suppressing me on a unconscious level. [00:46:44] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, this is what I found as well, because I had that, too. And I had to work through that in analysis because I felt I couldn't do anything. I wasn't worth anything. And my analyst said, where does that idea come from that you're worth nothing and that you're sort of bad and rather a nuisance in the world instead of being an asset? So I worked through all that. And although you can interpret that mystery in a different way, you can say that Eve taking the apple was the birth of consciousness, that she was taking a step forward for the human race, so to speak, and then giving the apple to Adam, saying, come with me, let's go together, sort of thing. You can interpret it in that way, but it is not interpreted in that way by the Church, by the Catholic, particularly Catholic Church, because they always put the story of Adam and Eve and the Fall before the redemption, the redemptive act of Christ in offering his life for the sins of humanity, which, again, is a myth that has been constructed, just like the myth of the Fall was A construction to give people an idea that they were bad, sinful, they'd done something wrong, they'd been expelled from the garden. I mean, terrible images, really, by a very cruel God. There again an image of God that was not one that one wanted to have. But all that was in my psyche, just like in yours. And I was brought up as a Protestant and I went to school, to church, at school and all that sort of thing. But gradually I stopped going to church. And I hated going to church. I felt sick and I knew something wasn't right. Every time that they read this story, I wanted to get out of the church as soon as possible and turn tail on it. So then I began to think, well, what is this story been telling women for thousands of years, at least two and a half thousand, if not 3,000 years, they've had this drummed into them that they're somehow responsible for bringing sin, death and evil into the world. What a terrible burden for women to carry. So I decided to help women to throw off this burden, if possible, to realize what's been done to them and why. Men have been indoctrinated into the belief that women are inferior and somehow bad and their sexuality is too much of a problem. [00:49:15] Speaker A: Yes. And this is where I think of Hypatia. Hypatia, Hypatia. And she really speaks to me. And I think of her, the fate that she encountered. Just like so many women that were speaking their truth or standing up for their truth and what they believed in their heart and it not ending well for them. And I desperately wanted a different story for that. But then that is the. The ultimate staying true to yourself, right? [00:50:16] Speaker C: Yes. Which is very difficult. And also you have to be careful not to go over the top in being yourself and become didactic and take on all the worst aspects of the masculine archetype in telling everybody what to do or throwing your weight around or whatever, that's the risk of coming into full awareness of your femininity, that you develop the more strident and unwelcome aspects of both masculine and feminine. You become manipulative, you become destructive of your partner, critical of your partner, whoever he or she might be. And you become, as it were, on the power trip, to impose your will, whatever it might be, or the will of your group of women on other people. And they're completely unconscious of it because they don't understand that the unconscious can take over the conscious mind and all the instincts of the unconscious can be driving you on the path of power when you should be On a totally different path of really understanding the feminine, but not being taken over by the worst aspects of power, the power drive, which is also masculine as well as feminine. It's not only feminine, but I think you can get the point of what's happened because people don't know anything about the unconscious because we're stuck in the little tiny triangle at the top. We're liable to be possessed by aspects of the unconscious, which is basically the instinctive form of ourselves, our consciousness, and driven by it like say Putin or, or any conqueror. Today, where we looking or look at Sudan and the fight between two groups of people killing each other. It's the same principle of the power principle taking over, saying we have to have power over this other group. And you can look everywhere in the world today in different levels and aspects of life and see that at work. You can see that takeover happening, taking place, so to speak. And it's very tragic and it leads to huge loss of life and to huge loss of consciousness. And it's utterly tragic. [00:52:32] Speaker A: Yes. And this is where I think when we're coming to the expansion of consciousness and where, where to from here? Because if there is all these competing religions and they seem to be not able to coexist, where, where does that leave the average person? What a question. But like, how do we expand our consciousness? Because I think about it a lot in terms of this is my personal view. I. Because so much of my life was ruled by religion and breaking free of. Of that, I try not to box myself into any dogma or any in doctrines that is telling me to do a certain thing. I try to take that principle of listening to the heart. But how can we come back to a structure that is. I don't know, maybe more. When I read your chapters about the Gnostics and the Essene, knowledge like that is, that really resonates with me. But then if you do a Google search on that teaching, I don't know if you've ever done that, it comes up with some very interesting content and it's quite negative. So yeah, what is the answer with religion and where do you, where do you sit with that? [00:54:29] Speaker C: Well, we're going through a huge transformation. The whole world is. Because we've come to the point from the transcendent viewpoint where we have to change, otherwise we're going to destroy the planet through our stupidity, through our weapons, through biological weapons as well as physical weapons. So there's great danger, but at the same time huge opportunity. And many people are becoming aware that we have to Change. We have to change our. Our patterns that we've been stuck in for 4,000 years or so. And this is affecting people in different ways. Some people are getting angry, some people are getting sad. Some people are doing nothing, some people are doing a lot. So there's a huge amount of people working against war on the Internet, different organizations about that. There's a great interest in health, how we can look after our health better, how we don't need all these vaccinations, particularly in America. The most appalling amount given to infants, I think it's 17 are given to infants. So there's changes going on. And the whole Covid thing, what was hidden from people is coming out. All the sort of what was driving the whole Covid shutdown and the control exercised by governments, it's coming out, what's behind that. But we also need to be aware of what's in front. Because there is this attempt to control the whole of humanity through technology. And I have touched on it in my book, but there are other books that have been written about it which I could tell people about if they wanted. Not now, but another time in which they need to become more informed of where this technology is going, trying to take over. And where people, invisible people, are trying to manipulate, like puppets on a string, so to speak, manipulate the whole of humanity, get them into one controlled mass where they can then control all the resources of the planet and all the money that people have. And it's very serious. This is a threat. So the very fact that. That there is this very difficult transition point between leaving the old pattern, including all this new technological control, moving into one about love and relationship and service. Those three things, love, relationship and service. That's going to be a huge transformation. Children will grasp it very easily if they're brought up well, because they can be how everything is related to everything else in nature, how they are part of nature, and then they can grow up with that consciousness and live it in a different way than we are at the present time. So I see great hope for the future. But also we're going to go through a narrow, difficult, dangerous passage. When all this comes to a head, when people become suddenly aware what's happening, how they're being increasingly controlled, and they'll begin to rebel against it. And that will be a struggle between the powers, you could say, of light and dark. And I hope we will be helped by the other side in this because it will be a struggle. But it could take 50 years, it could take 100 years. I really can't say. It could take just a few years, say 10 or 15. It's moving to a crux with this. 20, 30 is a year we should watch because that's when net zero is supposed to come into being and countries are being pushed towards that. And because of that, a great deal of farming, the farming community is being pressurized and diminished in order that these people should get more control of the land and the Earth. And so this is something to be watched very carefully. And net zero I'm not in favor of because I think that the Earth has its own rhythm. And it may be that we are naturally, through the Earth's natural rhythms, moving into a colder era or a warmer era, we don't know which yet. So one mustn't take what we're told absolutely as truth, because it isn't truth. Not enough is known yet. And they often use computer simulations to predict what's going to happen when they don't listen and watch what's actually happening in different parts of the Earth. So there's a lot to be understood there and to be assimilated. But people should be very careful of listening to what they're being told and taking it all absolutely, swallowing it hook, line and sinker. [00:59:18] Speaker A: Yes, I agree. A lot of discernment is needed there. And the. I think that's, you know, what we've seen over the last four to six years of. Yeah, it takes a while for the science to catch up with the soul. And so how can we listen to the soul? Because that's going to give us that instant inkling of what the. I want to say the right thing to do is. But yeah, that is a conversation that I am having. It's just like, how can we connect to the heart and be in that discernment, not take things off face value? And I think what you mentioned about technology, that is what I'm seeing very alive at the moment with obviously, AI and it feels a bit like the. The boiling frog analogy. You know, the frog. Frog in the water. [01:00:19] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:00:19] Speaker A: And I feel that, yeah, like that that's why your book is important to bring up these conversations because I feel that we don't even realize what we're giving over to the technology and, and what the ramifications of that are is. [01:00:39] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I think that you're absolutely right. It is a creeping attempt to take control which we have to be more and more aware of where it's happening and say, this is not right. I feel this isn't right. That's the Heart saying something isn't right about this whole business. The emphasis on AI, the creation of transhuman beings, or, I don't know what they're called, cyborgs, which would mean that we can't go back to being human. Human. Once we take on the change, once we allow things to be implanted in our brain or our body. They're working on implants now which can connect you to your computer and all that sort of thing. Absolutely. Avoid anything like that. Anything to do with the interference of the body or the brain, you avoid. And never, never let your children have anything like that. Because it will become fashionable. People say, oh, this I can connect with my computer. I can do whatever. I don't need a computer. I can just use my body. It would be tempting, and it'll be tempting in the way of presenting something better for humanity. But it won't be better. It'll be so dangerous that we can't go back once we've gone on that path. [01:01:54] Speaker A: Yes. And I saw this with the wearables, with the phone, with the ring, and then, yeah, even introducing these tech sleep wearables, which frightens me. Impacting the consciousness. And as we discussed, with dreams being so powerful, I can't imagine how that would change the psyche of our dreams as well. [01:02:23] Speaker C: Yes, you're absolutely right, it would. Because if you change the natural organism of the body in the psyche, you interfere with something absolutely extraordinary that we haven't really become aware of. And this is where Greg Braden's work is so interesting, because he says we are divine beings. I'm saying it from a different perspective, but he's saying it from the scientific perspective that we have this quality of divinity within us. The way our organism works, the way we can heal ourselves with meditation and other methods, the way we can make all these. These discoveries that we've made in the past. Extraordinary discoveries that our brain is something extraordinary that is kind of downloading consciousness from the universe. It's not created by the physical brain. It's downloaded. It's like a download. So all of this we can learn about. And the more we learn about it and understand the danger of this new technology, the more we can protect ourselves against it. It will be very difficult because the subtlety of the influence which is already pervading our cultures, indoctrinating people at subtle levels to a new way of thinking, to a technological way of thinking, is very powerful. It's been going on for a long time, maybe 60 years or so. So just watch what's going on. Try and become as well informed as you can and gather together in groups and talk about all this. Because there may be some people in groups who know more about one thing, more about AI or more about anything at all, really. And so they can share their knowledge and spread the knowledge that way through groups discussing things with each other. [01:04:11] Speaker A: The last thing I wanted to ask you is. I know there's so many you could choose from, but what is one book that has really impacted you? I would love to know. [01:04:23] Speaker C: I think a book which was, I Can't remember its Name, by Richard Buck about consciousness. How he had this experience himself of changing consciousness and how he recounts marvelous episodes of other people having this change of consciousness into cosmic consciousness. I think it was called. I'll have to email it to you because it's a very important book. I do remember it's by Richard Buck and I think it was published in the 1920s or early on anyway, in the last century. That made a real impact on me. Also the Varieties of Religious Experience. I can't remember the name of the author there, but you'll probably. You could look it up. Jung's work, Modern man in Search of a Soul. My husband read that to me when I was recovering from a miscarriage. That made a deep impression on both of us. And we began to read more books about Jung after that by Jung. And then we both went into Jung analysis as a result. So I'd say Modern man in Search of a Soul by Jung. This Cosmic Consciousness by Richard Buck, I think it was called Cosmic Consciousness and the Varieties of Religious Experience by William James. That's the author. But there are also many other books, as I've read, that I've recorded. There's wonderful books about symbolism, the Lost Language of Symbolism. That was fascinating book which I mentioned in relation to Cinderella in my own book. [01:06:06] Speaker A: Yes, I think I wrote that one down. Yes, I've got a running. [01:06:11] Speaker C: Yeah, that's been republished in the last five years or so. It's been republished, so you can get it easily. And I think those are the main ones. And then also there were books when Jules and I were writing the Myth of the Goddess. There were wonderful books we discovered, which with Joseph Campbell, was a huge influence on both of us and continues to be so to this day. He was extraordinary man. So any of his books, definitely. And then there was a wonderful one about the moon, I remember, which opened me to the meaning of the moon's phases and how people recorded it. As long as 40,000 B.C. they were recording the phases of the moon so this was the ability of humanity to notice what was important all the way through. But I think those were the main books. Certainly. Joseph Campbell, a huge influence. Jung, a huge influence. [01:07:09] Speaker A: Thank you, Anne. That is amazing. I know my listeners are going to love getting into those. I just wanted to finish with in your book. I wanted to read this to you. You said, at the end of my life, I feel drawn to make this forgotten feminine gender of the Holy Spirit more widely known, to make a small contribution to restoring the largely forgotten image of the Divine Mother and the divine feminine. And I just want to thank you so much because you have done that for me. [01:07:45] Speaker C: That's wonderful for me to hear. If I've done it for one woman, that's in itself a blessing. Thank you for telling me that. [01:07:54] Speaker A: Thank you, Anne. It's been such a joy and pleasure and such a privilege to speak to you. So thank you for your. For your time and for your work and all your words. [01:08:05] Speaker B: Thank you for listening to this episode. I hope that you really loved this episode with Ann. I would love to know your feedback and how this landed for you. And I know Ann would want to as well. Well, if you could send me a message on Instagram or leave a review on Spotify or Apple, I would be so grateful because I feel we're at a time where I want to bring more of this information and conversations to you. And I also want to let you know that the next circle of Lumen is going to be opening in September. So if you're interested, make sure you get on the mailing list. I will send that out first so you can see what the book is. If you're interested in joining. And it's my favorite thing to speak to these incredible women that have been coming into Lumen around the challenging parts of these books that are expanding our mind. I think this is so important, so I would love to have you in if that interests you. I'm sending you lots of love and [01:09:19] Speaker A: I'll speak to you soon. [01:09:20] Speaker B: Thanks for tuning in to Star Being. May the wisdom shared resonate in your soul. Until next time, stay connected and keep [01:09:28] Speaker A: reaching for the stars. This is Star Being signing off.