Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Speaker A: Welcome to Starbing. I'm Tara, your guide. Blending the wisdom of the stars, philosophy and soul centered conversation. Here we question, remember and reconnect with the stars, with self, with true being. I hope these conversations ignite within you, resonance, awakening and a deeper knowing. Together, we open to more truth, more magic, more you. Welcome to episode 43. Your voice cannot be replaced. The Return to depth, Artistry and truth with Sonja Bavistock. For a while, there was this narrative that AI would replace writers. But what we're actually seeing is something very different now that anyone can generate content. The real scarcity is voice.
Real voice, the kind that comes from our lived experience, from depth, from truth.
And it's not something that you can manufacture.
So in this episode with Sonia, who is a writer, speaker and a guide for women who are standing on the edge of their next evolution. She is also a dear friend and
[00:01:10] Speaker B: truly one of the brightest lights I know.
[00:01:14] Speaker A: Sonia has spent over a decade working across blogging, social media and communications. But what she really does goes far beyond that. She helps women unlock their voice to articulate who they are, especially in the moments where everything is shifting and the old ways of expressing no longer fits. Her work moves through identity, creativity, and the beauty of remembering who you are and what it means to be seen not just for what you do, but for the truth of who you are.
In this conversation, we go into the deeper shift that's happening right now, away from speed and surface level expression and back into depth, artistry and something that actually feels human.
[00:02:01] Speaker B: Human.
[00:02:02] Speaker A: We speak about why it's so difficult to tell your own story.
What happens when you outgrow who you've been and the discomfort of that in between space, where you're no longer who you were, but not fully anchored into who you're becoming. And we speak honestly about visibility, the fear of being seen, the judgment that can come with it, and the moment you decide to stop, waiting until you feel ready.
This is a conversation about storytelling, but not as a strategy, as something that you live into and something you remember.
I hope you enjoy and love this episode.
[00:02:40] Speaker B: Welcome. It's so good to have you here in person.
And we didn't coordinate this, we definitely didn't plan it, but this is.
[00:02:53] Speaker C: This is just magic.
[00:02:54] Speaker B: This is just us. I think this is just on the same wavelength always.
Yeah. I'm excited for this episode with you.
The first question I want to ask you is about AI because I feel that because everyone has access to AI now, there has been this movement around brands now recognizing that for a While they're storytellers. And really, the.
The copywriters were getting rid of with the AI and now we're seeing brands recognizing the creativity and the soul behind copywriters and storytellers. And now they're the most important thing coming back. And so the pendulum has swung over way over here, and we're coming back. So I'd love to know your experience of that and.
[00:03:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:53] Speaker B: How you feel it's sitting now.
[00:03:56] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. You are 100% right. When AI became really mainstream and everyone was accessing it, the narrative was, copywriters, your jobs are dead. Start looking for other gainful employment. And it was a little bit scary at first because, yeah, everybody was jumping on the likes of ChatGPT and other similar AI platforms.
But what became really evident very quickly is that you can recognize AI written copy a mile away, and we're talking about your average person who might just use it every now and then. There are certain words, turns of phrases, and I'm not talking about the EM dash. I love the EM dash. Live long, live it forever.
But there. There's definitely turns of phrases and certain words that AI uses. And, you know, it just became apparently obvious that, yeah, it. It could churn out copy. Absolutely. It could. And it can.
But what it can't replicate is personal story, tone of voice, soul lived experience, those little beautiful details and nuances that make storytelling so human. And so, like all good trends, you just have to ride the wave until the tide come back, comes back in again.
And sure enough, exact like you said, people began to recognize, hang on. This machine can't. Can't tell the stories that we can. We're losing our soul, we're losing our essence, we're losing our uniqueness. And so we need the storytellers of the world. We need the copywriters back. And the pendulum has absolutely swung back in our favor again. And that makes me really happy. And I'm not anti AI whatsoever.
I have numerous copywriting clients that I use ChatGPT for, but I use it for the science aspect of the writing. So I use it to help me plan, to create strategy, to map out my thoughts so that they make sense. And then I bring the art. I am the artist, and I bring the artistry. So I'm the one doing the writing. I'm the one telling the story. I'm the one weaving it all together so that it flows beautifully and reads well.
And then I might use AI for a light glance over just for editing.
Um, and then I'm the one finishing it off like it really is the marriage of art and science together.
But I'm the one who's making it unique. I'm the one who's really telling the story.
So yeah, that's just my take on it. I'm not against it. I think you've got to go with it, but you've got to be really smart. Like any platform, you've got to be smart about how you use it, what your intention is and the energy you bring to it.
[00:06:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I love how you say that it is an art because it is. There's specific things that you learn how to formulate, like the perfect one of the perfect, but a brand story or a storytelling, like how it's crafted.
And so what is interesting to me about what I've seen happen happen is that now creatives like yourself are getting the recognition of the artistry that is actually involved.
Because I don't think people quite got it before.
[00:07:15] Speaker C: No, they definitely didn't value it. I don't think they saw it and appreciated it as much as people do now, which is a good thing. You know, it's almost like you think the grass is greener. So you go over there and you experience it and then you realize, well, actually I see the value in what was over there to begin with. And, and that's just what's happened. And, and I'm, I'm grateful for that because it means I'm busier than ever.
I have clients on retainer. I have copywriting projects coming in thick and fast right now. And I'm also doing my own writing as well. So I have my own self expression on the Internet as well. And that's a beautiful thing to be able to connect with people because, you know, stories are as old as time. It's how we have connected as human beings. It's how we learn from one another and it's how we grow together. And that will never, ever die. As long as there are human beings, there will be storytelling forever and ever. Amen.
[00:08:07] Speaker B: Mm, yes, I agree. And like that makes me think about the long form content and how that is coming back as well.
And I think it is part of that. It's. We've become so conditioned again to read those short sentences and now we're wanting to go back to that depth and you can tell straight away a soulless piece of writing.
And I think it's becoming really apparent to everyone that, yeah, there, there is a, is a massive difference because it's a lot of noise now.
[00:08:44] Speaker A: That's.
[00:08:44] Speaker B: That's the thing, everyone getting access to this tool.
And so yeah, the quality of your work and what you're doing and your platform with going on Substack, has that been part of your strategy? Is like the long form content that you're really seeing is shifting?
[00:09:04] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Like, I really came of age on the Internet in the golden era of blogs. So I started a fashion and lifestyle blog back in 2013 and I loved the opportunity to just be able to talk about my life and my lived experiences. And of course, you know, there was the fashion element of it woven in as well. But what I really loved about blog platforms back then was not only the fact that you had basically unlimited online real estate to tell your story in full with the nuance, with the detail that makes it so rich and such a compelling read, but also the ability to leave comments on your favorite blogs and that's how you foster community. And then of course, you know, you meet together on social platforms as well, you know, be it Facebook or Instagram, which were the two most popular at the time. And now with the introduction of Substack, which is gaining rapidly in popularity, they have really cotton on fast that this is a social platform for writers and people who love to read long form writing.
So the fact that again, I feel like I'm having a renaissance with my blogging in that I have my own publication on substack called Blooming Season, where I get to write all about my life and my lived experiences and do it in my own tone of voice. And also I can add audio if I want, I can add video if I want. There's a comment section for conversation and then there's also the notes section which is phenomenal for discovering new people, connecting with people, sharing snippets of your life as well as promoting your writing and sharing that into the world as well. So I think it just goes to show how rapidly Substack is growing and how many people are on there denouncing other social platforms as noisy, as cluttered, as soulless.
And they are absolutely loving coming over to Substack. And I think it's testament when you see the likes of massive online business coaches and world renowned authors who are getting on Substack as well, to be able to connect with people and share more of themselves in a way that is more real time with the ability of dialogue as well, which is just beautiful because as human beings we are designed to connect. You know, we all want to belong. And so I really believe that storytelling gives us that opportunity to not only express ourselves but to create a bridge of connection between us and someone else. And the best part of it of all is helping other people feel less alone.
[00:11:40] Speaker B: Yes, I really feel that that is what you're a master of. You are so good at helping people articulate like who they are, especially for you. What I've seen is especially for women during transition points in their life.
And what I want to ask you is why do you think it is so hard for people to tell their own story?
[00:12:08] Speaker C: Oh my gosh, it's just. It's the age old conundrum, isn't it? It's like the carpenter's house is never finished.
It's the same as telling your own story. I think you're just so in it, you're so close to it.
That, and I know you and I have talked extensively about these. We just take for granted. We take for granted the skills and the gifts and the talents that come naturally to us. We take for granted that we're living a certain kind of lifestyle. We hold certain beliefs. We've put ourselves through our own personal development journey. You know, we've had our own spiritual awakenings and our own spiritual journeys and a lot of people haven't, you know, and I think it's really hard when it's like that old saying, you know, you can't see the forest from the trees. You're just so close to it, you're so in it. You don't realize what's unique and special about yourself because you just think, isn't everyone like this? Doesn't everybody think this or feel this way, or haven't hasn't everybody done this? Like, I'm not remarkable, I'm nobody special. And I think that is a lot of conditioning. And obviously it varies to the degree as to how much of that conditioning you've experienced in your upbringing in society and even in your own self worth. Self worth is a massive piece, particularly for women when it comes to telling their stories. I find that I am having to dig and pull and stretch and really encourage them with a lot of love and a lot of compliments that quite frankly make them uncomfortable to really like mine their brilliance. You know, women are full of gems and incredible gifts and talents, but we have just become so accustomed to keeping them pushed down inside, not letting them shine too brightly for fear of the tall poppy syndrome or taking up too much space or being too loud or too boisterous or too much of whatever someone's got a problem with when inact. And so we just struggle. We struggle so badly to tell our own stories. And so that's why. And I think it's like anything. I think it's why we all need specialists in this world is, you know, you're amazing at what you do. Like, you're the most prolific, incredible astrologer I've ever come across.
That's not my zone of genius. That's yours. And so I come to you for guidance in that aspect. And I just happen to be a really good storyteller. You know, I happen to be able to hear between words and. And, you know, really see the true essence of someone. I can look at you and see your brilliance, and then I can translate that into story, which you can then share with other people so that they can get to know you, too, in that light. And I think that's why, like, you know, we're meant to help each other with whatever it is we're moving through in this life. We're all walking each other home, and I get to do that through story.
What a gift.
[00:15:01] Speaker B: And, yeah, you're. You're so brilliant in it.
[00:15:03] Speaker A: And it's.
[00:15:03] Speaker B: It's interesting when you reflect that back because it is the cheerleading aspect.
That's what I. I see you as, as well, this cheerleader that is, like, you said, like, mining, like, who they are to extract that. And you do it in such a powerful way.
And when it comes to that storytelling and someone that's going through a transition, how do you work deeper with someone that is wanting to kind of rewire their narrative? Like, they might have been on one path, but now they're switching how. And I feel like there's a psychological element that you're also dealing with here because how do you.
Yeah. Like, craft that story to where they're wanting to go?
And because I think that story can be really powerful in convincing them themselves, maybe they're not quite there yet. And also, like. Yeah, so rewriting their story, which is, I feel, is such important work that you're doing with the. In that transition. Like women, you know, getting to the age where they're like, you know, what's next?
What. What does this look like?
Like, how do you go in with that psychology? And how do you start building their story of that transition?
[00:16:24] Speaker C: Well, I happen to think that's the best part.
I don't think the end journey or the end destination, rather, is the most exciting, juicy, delicious part. It's actually the in betweens. It's the moments of transition. It's being in the messy middle, if you like. That's where the Gold is.
And I think that the more we share in process, the more powerful our story becomes. And I know there's a lot of talk of this on social media at the moment of building in public. That's like a real, you know, thing right now. And I love that. I love that. As long as it's done authentically, you know, to really take people on the journey with you. And so, yeah, I, I joke that I'm the queen of transition because I always feel like, oh my God, here's another part of my life that's evolving, or here we go again, another cycle of growth. But this is what I signed up for.
Ultimately. This is what my soul wanted to do in this lifetime. So I'm well versed in it. And it's taken me a really long time. I'm 41 now. I'm going to be 42 this year. And it's taken me a really long time to see the beauty in, in these phases where you are growing, where you are changing, where you are evolving. And there's something in particular about midlife, I think, for women, like once we hit 40, it that is, I swear, turning going from 39 to 40 was one of the biggest portals I've ever walked through in my entire life. And you cannot explain it to anyone unless they go through it themselves. And I know you're a couple of months behind me and I remember I was like, babe, I'm here, I've got you. This is what's coming for you. But don't worry, you're gonna get through it. And I'm right here with you. Because what I think though, is so amazing about times like that is, is what I said at the start is this is what makes your story so much more interesting. This is what makes it so much richer. And it's funny because through the evolution of my business, I've had my own business for 10 years now. And I started out as a social media coach and then I evolved into business coaching, which never truly fit. But then what I really found was these women didn't need help with their Instagram captions or teaching them how to make a reel.
They needed self belief wired back into them again. They needed their engines revved, their tires pumped up. They needed to be reminded of their own beauty and their own brilliance. And that was most of my work through coaching was just like, you're amazing, you know that? Like, no one else has had this experience. No one else has your unique perspective.
There's somebody out there that needs your work in the way that only you can do it. There's somebody out there that needs to hear your story and in the way that you've lived it and only you can tell it. And so I think that's the bottom line, is we just need to be reminded of our uniqueness and that it is special and that it is worthy and that it's important and that it's needed. And so that's a lot of the behind the scenes work now. I very much transitioned into. I swear the universe has laughed at me because every time I try to steer myself away from storytelling, it pulls me back in. And so I'm really now seeing, stepping into the title of writer and copywriter and storyteller. And, you know, that feels like home to me. And, you know, it's only taken me to. Until 41 to get here, but that's okay. That's okay. That's part of my story.
That makes me a stronger writer, that makes me a more richer storyteller because I have been through these evolutions, because I have been through these chapters and these seasons, not only of my life, but of my career and my business as well. And so when I sit down with a copywriting client now, I can say, I understand. And that's coming from a place of truth, because it's coming from a place of lived experience.
[00:20:17] Speaker B: Yes. And that is what your work is. There's. That's the authentic magnet. Magnetism that comes from your work because you are walking the talk like you are, you know, pulling the curtain back, showing people what the, like this life journey is like. And yeah, like you said, like when I, before I hit 40, like, no one was really talking about that transition like you were.
And so I think there is something really. Yeah. Like, really magnetic about that in, in sharing that. And it's giving permission for other women to, to share in that way.
[00:21:02] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: So it's so, so powerful.
[00:21:04] Speaker C: I think so. And I have said to quite a number of girlfriends, I'm really proud to be a millennial. I'm really proud to be part of this generation because I feel like we are storytelling pioneers because I think we're. Yeah, absolutely. We are going through what our mothers went through, what our grandmothers went through, but we're the ones talking about it in public forums. We're opening up the door and saying, this is what I'm going through. And other women are saying, oh, my God, thank God, you too. I'm not alone in this. And we're creating community, we're creating connection. We're destigmatizing. We're taking the shame out of it, the embarrassment.
All of that is. Is dying with every story a woman tells.
[00:21:49] Speaker B: So powerful.
I want to talk about more about identity. And when.
When someone has come to you and you're diving into their identity, you're mining their story.
What.
What are the signs that you see that someone has outgrown a version of themselves?
[00:22:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:15] Speaker B: And how. How do you sort of
[00:22:20] Speaker A: usher that?
[00:22:21] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:21] Speaker B: Cultivate that.
[00:22:22] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. I think the most telltale sign is when I can tell they're bored.
I can just hear it in their voice and I can. I can just see it in their aura. I can feel it in their energy. They just sound like they're parroting a tired old line. It's like they've learned a script and they've said that same script day in, day out for the last however many years.
And it. That narrative doesn't fit anymore because as the person on the receiving end of it, I'm not feeling a damn thing.
I'm. I'm turned off. I'm tuned out.
I can just. I just. I'm not attracted to it whatso I'm not magnetized to it. I'm repelled by it. I'm like, oh, babe, you've outgrown that.
[00:23:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:05] Speaker C: That story. We can put that story to bed. That we can end that chapter and we can move on to the next. And honestly, when I have said that to someone else, even when I've said it to myself, when I've admitted it to myself every single, single time, the immediate reaction is relief.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:22] Speaker C: Which tells me you're ready. You're just a little bit scared.
And that's okay. That is a perfectly normal human response to have. Because I'm the same. I'm scared every time I have to shed that old skin and let the new one, which is still quite pink and raw and tender, be exposed to the light and the air before it's, you know, really fully formed and fully ready. And it's. It's funny because I've been talking a lot about this at the moment because I'm going through my own business rebrand right now, and I'm also going through a massive personal rebrand in that my self image has hit an all time low, and I'm working really hard on my self love and self belief and self respect to rebuild that. And it's. It's funny because this word just dropped in for me the other day when I was actually speaking on Instagram stories about it. And the Word redressing came to me.
[00:24:14] Speaker B: Yes. I wanted to speak to you about this.
[00:24:17] Speaker C: Yeah.
And. And I was like, yeah, this isn't just a rebrand. This is not just a reinvention. This is a redressing of myself. And I wrote about this on Substack as well. And one of the beautiful women who in my community left a comment, and she said, my gosh, don't underestimate the power of redressing, because what it requires of you is to get undressed, to be naked, and then to redress.
And I. I've got chills right now, just, like, saying those words out loud. But I was like, yeah, that's exactly what this is all about. And it is scary and it is confronting, but it's also beautiful and it's powerful.
And these are the moments we live for as other people who are two months behind us or six months behind us or a year behind us or a generation behind us.
[00:25:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:09] Speaker C: Who are looking to us going, oh, my God, tell me it's going to be okay. Show me the way. If you can get through it, I can get it.
[00:25:15] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:25:16] Speaker B: And, yes, you and I have had a conversation around this, how the generation, you know, above us is.
Hasn't really been vocal in that way. And so this is part of the quest of starbing is to get more of that. Those voices, because it's like, yeah. Like, women are wanting to look to something.
[00:25:43] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:25:43] Speaker B: And have that. That comfort of, yeah, where is this going? Like, what's next?
[00:25:49] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. And the majority of my community online are women age 35 to 60.
And it's so beautiful that whenever I publish a piece on Substack, or I repurpose it and do an Instagram version, or I jump on Instagram stories and just talk about something that's going on. For me right now, the comments that I get from these women who are at all different stages of life and span different generations, there is the same common thread woven through everything. We're all going through the same sort of things, just with different circumstances. You know, it's like, same ocean, but different boat, you know, And. And that's the most beautiful thing. And that's what makes me not give up on storytelling, is I keep coming back to it. And even if I wanted to stop sharing my life online, I don't think that I could, because I know with every astrological reading I've had and. And, you know, even human design and just. Even. Just. Just when I tune into, like, the truth of my soul, I know that I am Here to live life, I'm here to experience it and I'm here to tell about it, I'm here to share about it. And the way that I do that is through my writing, you know, and also using my voice, which in itself has been a huge, huge self healing piece as well. You know, speaking, just speaking, sitting here, being on camera with you, speaking into a microphone with you. Like, there is still a part of me that is absolutely terrified, like, is this going to be good enough? Are they, are these women who are going to be listening or watching this episode, are they going to get enough from this? And you know, I still, I was driving here to come and pick you up and come to this interview and I, I prayed to the universe and I just said, let me be a vessel, let me be a messenger. Just work with me and through me to be able to say what to be said for you, for me, and for everyone listening. And I think when you remove yourself from the equation, when you take yourself out of the center of the equation, it makes it easier. It makes it easier. And you're. And your belief and your determination only has to be 1% stronger than your fear. And then you can be of service. You can be that shining light, that North Star for somebody else who needs you. Because God knows I've needed people like me in my life. And you know, we've, we've joked before that we create what we do. We have these businesses that we have started and we are running because we needed this stuff for ourselves and we couldn't find it.
[00:28:18] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:28:18] Speaker C: And so that's what we're doing here.
[00:28:20] Speaker B: Yes. Thank you for sharing that. Because even in that, and this is, you know, this is the medicine that you give. It's, you know, pulling back that curtain and it's been like, yeah, like anyone that will see you face value is like, oh, Sonia's, you know, got it all together. She's confident. She's like, you know, doing all these things. And it's when you realize, no, I'm, I'm in a stretch, like, but I'm doing it anyway.
[00:28:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:28:46] Speaker B: And then that is encouraging other women to go, oh, well, you know, I can do this as well. And I feel like that is the center piece of, of your work.
Yeah. But when it comes to that, when we're in that in between phase, that in between transition, like going through that redressing, undressing phase, why, why is it so uncomfortable?
[00:29:18] Speaker C: Because, I mean, whichever way you want to phrase it, it ultimately is a death and rebirth.
And this Takes me back to that amazing episode you did with Jane Hardwick Collins where she talks about these moments in a woman's life and how when we walk through these portals, we need to celebrate, we need to commemorate so that we can acknowledge and really pay honour and respect to the woman we have been up until this point.
And then we have to let her go. And then we step forward into our next phase of life. And there's a morning in that. There's a huge piece of mourning in that. There's a grief in that, because we will never be her again.
And that, you know, that doesn't just have to be about adolescence or getting married or becoming a mother or going into menopause or whatever. It. It can be as simple as, oh, my God, I can't do this job anymore.
I can't be friends with this person anymore. I have to leave this relationship. I need to move cities, I need to move states, I need to move countries.
I need to do what sets my soul on fire.
And when that decision is made, when we acknowledge that that change needs to happen and that decision is made to do it, we're letting go of a version of ourselves that will never exist again.
And that's why it's so hard, because we're saying goodbye to someone we are so familiar with, that we've been so intimately close to, that we have lived and breathed as. For however long, doesn't matter how long, for however long.
And we're letting her go and we're saying goodbye. We're saying, thank you for carrying me this far, but you can't come forward with me anymore. I've got to become the next version of me.
And that's no small feat.
That's. That's not to be underestimated ever.
[00:31:10] Speaker B: I love that because I've, you know, seen you do this in real time. And what other ways. Or what is your.
Has been one of the most powerful ways that you have really honored and celebrated that old part of you. Yeah. That old identity of Sonia. Is there something that you have that you can remember that you did, that you just like, oh, I. I allowed myself this. Or I really acknowledged that because, like you said, it's so important to. To honor that. That phase, because there's so many other celebrations in society that get the spotlight.
But then when it comes to something that we've. It's been really challenging for us.
[00:32:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:32:03] Speaker B: We kind of like, yeah, again, like, keep it internal and don't acknowledge it.
[00:32:08] Speaker C: Yeah. There are two key things that really stand out for Me. And I'm speaking from most recent experience in 2025 to now. And that the two things are. Number one is I've documented it. I've taken photos, I've recorded videos, I've written about it.
And I've also shared it with my close inner circle of girlfriends. So I, I mean, you and I voice note daily because we live on opposite sides of the voice note, is it. Unless we can hang out like this.
And I've shared the journey, I've shared the process with my innermost circle of most trusted loved girlfriends. And in those moments, you girls, you women have incredibly reflected back to me. You know, when I have felt like a mess, when I have felt like a failure, when I have felt broken. You have so beautifully held the mirror up to me and been like, you are so powerful. You are amazing. You are doing this. You are changing your life. So just really documenting it through writing, through social posts, through videos. And I mean, this is my version of doing it. Right? It could be your own personal journal that no one ever sees. You know, it. Those pages never see the light of day, let alone the Internet. And that is so fine as well, because I've got that as well. And the conversations I have with you and my dearest friends, they don't get published publicly. That's always just between us.
Those have been the most powerful moments of acknowledgement, of self, reflection, of being able to measure how far I've come.
And then, yeah, really the second thing is through the sharing with girlfriends is allowing myself to be celebrated.
And I'll never forget when I got made redundant from my full time corporate job. You sent me a bottle of champagne and the car that you wrote, those words like, moved me so deeply, like had such a profound impact on me that I framed that card. I have the, the text of your card, like your actual card. I cut it in half and I put the writing part, like of your message in a frame. It sits in my bedroom on the cabinet that's at the end of my bed. And every morning when I wake up, I look at your words and I read those words and they are a d reminder to me that I am important, I am valuable, I mean something to other people, and I am loved no matter what my friggin job title is.
[00:34:44] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:34:46] Speaker C: Sorry, honey, I didn't mean to make you emotional. It's like I was like, don't cry, Sonia, don't cry.
[00:34:51] Speaker B: Yeah, just make Tara cry.
[00:34:52] Speaker C: Just make Tara cry instead.
[00:34:54] Speaker B: Yeah, there's something so powerful about that and I, I really did want to touch on that with you because you are such an extraordinary friend and you really cultivate this vortex around you. Obviously, I've been in your world for a couple of days now, and I just see the. The people on the street and people just, like, run. Like, run. Running at her, running up to her, and I just. I just.
[00:35:28] Speaker C: Those are the ones who know me, by the way. Yeah, yeah. People who know me. They run up and they're like, hi. And hug. Yes.
[00:35:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:33] Speaker C: Not just random strangers.
[00:35:34] Speaker B: No, not random strangers. But everywhere we go. And it's been such a beautiful thing to see because I'm like, yeah, you. You have this magnetic quality about you, and you've cultivated these deep friendships.
And I wanted to know what your secret is around that, because this is what so many women crave.
[00:36:00] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:36:01] Speaker B: Crave this type of friendship.
[00:36:03] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:36:04] Speaker B: And so. Yeah, I want your take on that.
[00:36:06] Speaker C: Well, I never had it growing up.
I was always on the outside, you know, from the age of four when I got glasses and I had to wear an eyepatch. I was the kid sitting on the side of the sand pit that none of the other kids would play with and the teacher had to sit with at recess. That's one of my earliest memories. And then going through adolescence and being diagnosed with scoliosis and then having to wear a back brace for 23 hours a day for five and a half years, and being picked on and made jokes about and being teased at school and not being able to play sport and not being included, Always being on the fringe, always being on the outer. Then, of course, I got acne and then I got braces. I had spinal surgery at the age of 15 and a half and missed an entire term of year 11 in school.
And again, just felt like the hours on the outside, the whole world was passing me by.
And throughout that whole entire time, it wasn't until I met my husband, when I obviously was my then boyfriend, age 20, that I started cultivating these friends through him, because he had had these friends in his life since he was like 5 years old and then going through high school and then, you know, their party days in their 20s. And these people had stuck together and they had something such a beautiful friendship circle. And it was through his friends that I was able to make friends with, like, the wives and the women in the group and, you know, a couple really in particular that I was like, this is what I've been craving my whole life, you know, and then it just took. It took two of them to really see me for who I was, because I was younger than everybody, and, you know, they were like, oh, here's another girlfriend. Here we go. But those two women in particular saw me for me, and we just went deep fast. And I'm that kind of person. I can't do small talk. I can't do shallow, superficial, surface level. It's just not my vibe. I go deep. And there's something about me that I could be. This is a real story. I was sitting out the front of my favorite cafe in my hometown, waiting. I was waiting for my cup of tea to be served, and this guy was waiting for his takeaway coffee. I'd never met him before in my life. We said hello to each other. He started talking. All of a sudden, I found out his whole life story. I found out about his divorce. I found about his business partner embezzling money from the business, what he's planning to do next, like, within five minutes, minutes of meeting this guy. And I'm just like, what is it about me? Am I Oprah? Like.
Like, what is it that people want to tell me their whole life story? And I think it does come back to the fact that I know what it's like to be on the outer edge, looking in and never being accepted, never being seen for who I was until I hit my 20s. And then all of a sudden, I got to experience true friendship for the first time in my life. And I was like, this is what I'm here for. But also, this is what I'm about, is no more trying to fit in and be like everybody else. I'm going to be the freaky weirdo that I am. I'm going to be the deep, deep, deep girl, the big thinker, the deep feeler, the expressive one, the emotional one. And, you know, ultimately, when we're being our true, authentic selves, we attract the people we're meant to have in our life, and we repel the people who are not meant for us. And that is true in business and online as it is in friendship. And so I think, you know, I really, truly, deeply value friendship so much because, you know, I have a fractured relationship with my biological family. You know, I had. I had a really hard time growing up. I grew up in a really emotionally volatile household. I couldn't speak up, I couldn't be heard, and I just craved. I just craved spaces and people that I could be myself. I could feel safe to be myself fully, that I could use my voice and I could speak up and not be shouted down, that I could make my Silly jokes and, you know, be my weird self and be loved for that. And I found that in my now husband. I found that in those two women in his friendship circle. That gave me the chance from the very beginning.
And then from there I have put myself in spaces and places like how we met, you know, in business, masterminds in various coaching programs, going to events. I'm really, really selective with where I put myself. You know, I just really. I. I joke that I tune myself into a certain frequency in the universe depending on what I want, and then it comes to me and that's. That has never been truer than with friendship. And I don't know, there's just a belief that I really believe I'm worthy of love.
And I think that ultimately, you know, our purpose in this life is to love and to be loved.
And I think if you tune yourself into the frequency of love, you can't help but attract amazing people into your life. Especially if you know what it's like to not have friends or to be accepted for who you are. Of course you're going to see somebody and love them for who they are and be their friend, you know, and. And be the kind of friend you. You want to be and you want to receive, you know?
Yeah. Does that make sense?
[00:41:32] Speaker A: It does.
[00:41:33] Speaker B: Yeah. That's really beautiful. And I can so understand.
Yeah. Where. Where that comes from. Because what I love about you is I never have to.
I never have to guess what you're really thinking. Like, it's. It's really clear.
[00:41:54] Speaker C: If my words don't say it, my face says it. And if my face doesn't say it, my energy, definitely, it's just like the most refreshing.
I just think life is too short and precious to play games.
Do you know what I mean? When it comes to any kind of relationship, there are no. There have never been any games. In my relationship with my husband, there are no games when it comes to me as a friend. And if there are, then you're not my friend.
[00:42:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:19] Speaker C: Like, you clearly don't want to be my friend. We're not meant to be friends, and that's okay. I don't. That's cool. No worries. I wish you well. Go be friends with somebody else who you're a better fit with.
But life is too short and too precious to. Around, quite frankly, you know, and so I adore you. Like, you are one of the most important people in my life and you have been there with me in the trenches last year especially.
And I just think, like, we are ride or die. So, like, there's nothing that you could bring to me that would make me, like, not want to be your friend. Like, there's a Seinfeld episode where George says to Jerry, you could murder someone and I wouldn't tell anybody. It's like, that's like, that's friendship, man. Like, I'll help you bury the body. Like, you know, we're in it together because I know you love me for me. You have not only proven that with. With your energy, with your presence, with your support, and with your love. So, like, of course, yeah.
[00:43:20] Speaker B: It's almost as though you've. You set the standard.
[00:43:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:43:24] Speaker B: And.
[00:43:25] Speaker C: And I think that's a really important conversation is, like, we've heard so much about boundaries, and boundaries absolutely serve a purpose, but boundaries are for self preservation and self protection.
Standards are what you are available for.
Standards determine the quality of your relationship, your life, your business, even the experiences you have online and the interactions you have with people day to day. Like, I am not available for friends.
I'm not available for bad experiences. I'm not available for crappy customer service. I'm not available for delays. I'm not available for, like, anything, you know, that doesn't serve me or isn't for my highest good and is going to get in the way of me having the most incredible experience on earth that I can in this lifetime.
[00:44:14] Speaker B: I'm not available.
[00:44:15] Speaker C: So I set my standards, and I'm really proud of having high standards because it means I have incredible, impeccable people in my life who have the most amazing, you know, character and. And integrity, and that's what it's all about.
[00:44:33] Speaker B: Yes, I agree.
[00:44:34] Speaker C: Why waste your time with anything else?
[00:44:37] Speaker B: I agree.
I love. I love that. I'm so glad that I asked you that question.
I wanted to go back to asking you about visibility, and I wanted to talk about the fear of judgment and how you've really navigated that fear of judgment. Because I think as we've touched on, it can be so insidious for women. Like, it is really something that.
[00:45:14] Speaker C: Oh, it's so prevalent. Yeah, it's so prevalent.
And honestly, I've been dealing with this fear since 2013, when I first started my blog. And really being an active member on social media and really sharing my life on the Internet, there is a constant fear of judgment. But I just. I just know and trust that whoever I'm meant to be doing this for, whoever I'm meant to be sharing this for, is going to find it and it's going to resonate in all the right ways. And the people who want to make fun of me or the people who want to judge me or the people who want to roll their eyes at me or call me whatever, it's not for them, you know, even judgment of like family or friends, I'm not doing this for them.
This is not for my husband. This is not for my mother in law. This is not for my neighbor down the street.
This is for the women who need somebody like me because they don't have somebody like me having these conversations with them in their own life.
You know, I just. It blows my mind again. This takes me back to what we were saying earlier about the things we take for granted is I, I used to take for granted. I don't anymore because I've watched through the various coaching programs that I have run throughout the course of my business is like these women who come into my world in whatever way, whether it is through coaching or through copywriting or even just through reading my writing online, they're just like, oh my God, I wish I could have these conversations with my girlfriends, but they're just not on the same path as me.
I don't have anyone in my inner circle who is spiritual. I don't have anybody who's openly talking about the fact they're having an identity struggle or that they're really like, really, really having a hard time figuring out, oh my God, I'm 40 now. Like, what, what is my life? What is my life? What do I want for myself? No one's talking about it with them, you know, And I just think that's who I'm doing it for.
So, like human nature, we're all going to be judged.
There are pick. They're going to be people who have opinions on this episode and they're either going to be favorable or they're not going to be so lovely. And that's fine. That is what it is. It's got. It's none of my freaking business.
It's none of my freaking business. It's. I'm. I'm not even focused on that anymore. It took a long time to get to this place.
And I will say for anyone who's got any kind of fear, especially around being visible and around being online, the fears really never go away.
You just learn how to like do the dance with them, you know, they're just a companion. Fear is just a companion on the journey. And you just learn to put it in the back seat and not let it have the driver's seat or the the stereo, as Elizabeth Gilbert says, it doesn't get the driver's seat, doesn't get to be the navigator. It doesn't get to control the stereo. It just gets to sit in the back seat and come along for the ride, you know? And I just think, again, if your motivation to do whatever it is that you believe that you have come here to do is 1% stronger than your fear, that's all you need.
[00:48:21] Speaker B: Yes. And so I want to talk a little bit about that in terms of, like, intention.
So setting that intention, doing it. Something for bigger than what the.
I think this word is overused, but, like, the cringe, you know, like.
Like looking past that because.
Yeah, if you. Like you said before, when you take yourself out of that equation and you really start to think, well, like, what does that really matter? And it's just getting. Getting in the way. It's just that noise that.
[00:48:59] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:48:59] Speaker B: I don't need to tune into anymore.
I'd like to say that it gets. Gets easier, but I think you just
[00:49:06] Speaker C: get used to it.
[00:49:07] Speaker B: You just get used to it.
[00:49:08] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:49:08] Speaker B: But when it comes to that, what would you.
What. What is the intention that you've set around that?
[00:49:19] Speaker C: Honestly, it's so wild. It's really hard to describe because it's like. Like it's bigger than me.
[00:49:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:49:27] Speaker C: And I just feel like I'm the messenger and I'm just here playing my part in the grand, cosmic, universal plot of this lifetime, and I'm playing my little part in my little corner of the universe, you know, and my little pocket of the Internet and my neighborhood and my hometown and all that kind of thing. And I think that's just ultimately what it comes back to is it's like, it's not about me.
I just happen to be living my life as me and having the experiences that I'm having at the age that I'm having in the way that I'm having them, that is incredibly relatable to so many other women who are walking a similar timeline to me.
And I just happen to be gifted with the power of storytelling.
And so who am I not to use it?
Yes.
[00:50:20] Speaker B: And the other thing that I wanted to bring up was when you. When you do that, when you do put that yourself out there or you do, like, what I call, like, the. The like, thing, like, you're not the butt clenching.
[00:50:31] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:50:32] Speaker B: You're like.
But I find, because I've been tracking this lately, whenever I get that feeling and I proceed sometimes through your cheerleading, when I proceed, there is always something greater that comes off it. And not that they're setting the expectation of that.
[00:50:54] Speaker C: No. But because you never know what it's going to be.
[00:50:56] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:50:57] Speaker C: That's the beauty of it.
[00:50:58] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:50:58] Speaker C: Is you don't know what's on the other side of it. There's usually something amazing, but we never know what it is.
[00:51:03] Speaker B: Yes. And so now when I get that feeling, I'm like, oh, can't wait to see what happens from this.
[00:51:10] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:51:10] Speaker B: And it's like more of this excitement around it. Before I was like, like, oh, I'm just getting so caught up in my head in doing the thing.
[00:51:17] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:51:18] Speaker B: And now I just do it and I'm like, oh, I can't wait to see. Well, what happens from that.
[00:51:22] Speaker C: Exactly. And I mean, fear and excitement are just the same thing, but they're just wearing different outfits.
[00:51:27] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:51:28] Speaker C: And, you know, I saw this cute little quote on Instagram that's doing the rounds at the moment that when you feel like your heart racing, you just got to imagine that as inner applause. It's just like tiny little hands clapping you. That's like your heart clapping you. And like, I always joke that I'm just like, I'm a walking heartbeat. Like, I literally, I'm just like heart on my sleeve. You know, if. If my, if my mouth's not saying it, my face is saying, it's the Leo.
[00:51:52] Speaker B: It's the Leo. The Leo and the heart, for sure.
[00:51:55] Speaker C: Yeah. And you know, like, I used to be really embarrassed by that and really ashamed of, like, what a deep thinker and big feeler I was and how expressive and emotional I was. And now I'm like, that is my greatest asset. That is my superpower. Like, I've got written on my, on the homepage of my website at the moment that's about to be completely rewritten. But introspection and self expression are my superpowers, you know, and as I said, like, if those are gifts that have been given to me in this lifetime by the greater powers of this universe, who am I, first of all, to deny them and who am I to question them and then who am I to not share them with others?
You know, so that's just the vibe I take. And like the two greatest strategies or the two greatest feelings you can have before you publish something or put something out there is the butt clenching moment. And then the it moment where you just go, do you know what? I am so sick of this. Or I'm so sick of not saying what I mean about this. I'm sick of holding this back and holding this in it. I'm gonna say it, I'm gonna share it. It. And honestly, when I have had those moments that is like gold for content and for community building and for creating connection with the people in your audience because they're like, they feel it. It's like what I said before when you, when you asked me, like, how do you know when somebody is done with their current identity and they're ready to transition? They're bored and we can feel that they're not connected to their message anymore.
[00:53:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:53:26] Speaker C: But when you are so connected to, to the energy of a message, when it is so alive and true in you.
Yeah, you're gonna have a butt clench moment. You're probably gonna say it. I'm just gonna put it out there. And those are going to be the greatest pieces of art that you ever create.
[00:53:42] Speaker B: Always there. There's been podcast episodes where I've been like, no, it's. It's always the ones where I'm like, oh no.
[00:53:51] Speaker C: And then I'm voice noting you straight after listening, going, oh my God, that was my favorite episode ever.
[00:53:55] Speaker B: Yeah, it.
How we.
Without having that self awareness and keep coming back. How, yeah, we can, we can hold ourselves back and how it can be so sneaky.
I wanted to ask when, when that shifts for a woman, like when she is like, okay, like, I see this pattern. I'm pushing through.
What do you think internally shifts within her to like decides, yep, I'm no longer going to hide. I'm no longer going to. I see that pattern.
I'm no longer available for it.
[00:54:36] Speaker C: Yeah, I think, I know. I've just recently experienced this myself. I think we just click into another gear.
[00:54:43] Speaker B: I love these car analogies.
[00:54:44] Speaker C: I know.
[00:54:45] Speaker B: I appreciate them so much.
[00:54:47] Speaker C: And I'm not even a rev head like you. Like, I don't know anything about cars like you do, but it's so. It's the only way I can describe it because it's what I felt recently when I was like, when you feel a shift for me, it feels like, oh my God. Yeah, I have clicked into another gear here. I have just ascended a level. Like I'm in a new place here. There is something that has viscerally shifted in me. Like my DNA has been rearranged. However you want to say it. But I like to call it clicking into another gear. And you just see it, right? It's like when you know you, you need to do something and you put it off and you put it off and people are like, oh, you're procrastinating. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. Your mind, your body, your soul, your heart, your energy is not in alignment yet. It's not all on board. Once I feel like once everything is all on board and you're in full alignment, you click into that gear and you go, yeah. And nothing holds you back and nothing stops you. There's no procrastination, there's no second guess.
Outsourcing your authority and getting everybody's opinion. You're like, I'm moving. I'm moving with this because this is truth.
[00:55:58] Speaker B: So powerful. I love that.
I want to know your philosophy on beauty and the aging process and what your own evolution in that and relationship to it. You mentioned, you know, with growing up, like having, you know, the, the braces and, and the back brace, like, what has your relationship to beauty been? And, and where does it, your philosophy on beauty sit now? In the aging process? Yeah.
[00:56:31] Speaker C: I really only started developing a relationship with beauty, I would say around about the age of 17, 18.
That's when I was out of the back brace. The braces had come off my teeth, the acne had cleared.
And that was the first time in my life that I got to see who I was without a health issue clouding my vision. My vision of myself, my view of myself. I felt like at that point the mirror had been cleaned. You know, I was looking into a clean mirror for the first time in 18 years.
And that was when I started building my confidence from the outside in is how I like to describe it. Because my self esteem had taken an absolute battering for like 14 years. From the age of 4 all the way through to 18.
Most formative years of your life where you are literally developing in every way. And so I, I was like, cool, okay, how do I want to express myself? And that's the other thing. As I really see beauty as a form of self expression, it's like, how do I want the world to see who I am? How do I want to express that? And that's when I really got into my hair, you know, spray tans, getting my nails done. Fashion. Fashion was huge. Like my first, my first job was in fashion retail. I worked at Supre from the ages of 14 to 17. So good I got that job. I had nothing on my resume. Age 14. Walked into my local soup, walked straight up to the assistant manager.
Fuck knows what I said, but managed to charm her. And she wrote on my resume to the manager, we need to hire this girl. And they created a role for me. And I worked Thursday nights and Saturdays for three years straight and I blitzed my KPIs. I was like giving my sales away to the rest of our team. We were amazing.
[00:58:24] Speaker B: And just for context, Supre was where everyone wanted to work.
[00:58:28] Speaker C: All the cool. Oh my God, you got the best discount then. The clothes basically cost 5 cents, like on staff discount. It was amazing. It was so good. I had a fully stocked wardrobe. Best years of my life. Favorite job besides this one.
But like, what I really loved about that was, like, it really allowed me to try on different identities, you know, through fashion, through beauty. We're so lucky as women. We get to try on all these different identities through all these different stages of our lives in a way that truly expresses who we are on the inside, how we're feeling about ourselves, you know? I recently listened to another podcast episode with Maeve Riley, the stylist, and she was interviewing Rachel Zoe.
